All Comp BBQ is Sweet?? Your thoughts.

[Jason TQ]

So starting this thread from a discussion on another thread that sprung the idea in qtalk. I have few discussion questions/points below and are open to other points I didn't list. And this is very open and welcome to comp cooks of course, but also very welcome of the perspective from people that don't cook comps. The backyard/comp separation mentality/notion is not good for bbq. So that being said.......

While sweet certainly plays a role in KCBS and other (but not all) sanctioning bodies do you think the sweet trend is as prominent as in the past? Does the idea of candy bbq stay in the air because of BBQ Pitmasters/TV and the things that make for good camera shots and tv is raining brown sugar and margarine? So then people see that and think that is all that goes into the food and repeat the idea of "comp bbq must only be sweet". I remember a shot of Harry Soo talking into the camera about adding brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, etc to his sauce to make it more candy sweet (or something close to that effect). Heck even when I saw that which was right before I started competing I though "Dang! These judges must really only like sweet stuff".

I think trends are changing from the talks I have had with other competitors and judges. I think our food is well balanced and if anything sweet doesn't come to mind first. But just my talks don't amount to the "national sample size" of course so I want others opinions. This thread isn't some cure all to the issue, but getting out into the air what comp cooks think might help dissolve this notion of "all comp bbq is overly sweet". And also maybe it won't. Maybe comp bbq hasn't changed and never will. That is definitely a possibility as well.

-Jason

 

[Pappy Q]

I think the discussion gets over complicated and wrapped up in personal feelings and emotions. To me its very simple, cooks that are truely in it to win are trying to please the judges. Your "average" judge is not a bbq expert but a bbq lover. Like all people, they like what taste good to them. The average person likes sweet as a taste, it's the dominant flavor in the American diet. Therefore when cooking for the average judge/person, sweet is statistically going to do well. No different than how a restuarant or commercial food producer trys to put out a product that appeals to the majority of the people. Are there exceptions to the rule, of course but IMHO it's that simple.

 

[rookiedad]

i think you are right! i think all sweet would be considered unbalanced.

 

[Jason TQ]

I think the discussion gets over complicated and wrapped up in personal feelings and emotions. To me its very simple, cooks that are truely in it to win are trying to please the judges. Your "average" judge is not a bbq expert but a bbq lover. Like all people, they like what taste good to them. The average person likes sweet as a taste, it's the dominant flavor in the American diet. Therefore when cooking for the average judge/person, sweet is statistically going to do well. No different than how a restuarant or commercial food producer trys to put out a product that appeals to the majority of the people. Are there exceptions to the rule, of course but IMHO it's that simple.

Definitely agree here and especially with your first sentence :-D. Sweet might be the more dominant flavor, but it might not be 75-95% dominant which is what I think many people believe.

 

[akoda]

This year I plan to compete in 4 competitions. I am still very new to it. I plan to do the type of BBQ I like with a little more flavor for the judges. I will not be turning in anything overly sweet. I know I likely will not win but I want to enjoy what I produce and turn in and enjoy the experience. I hope one day the tide will turn and nice dry rubs will start to win on ribs.

$0.02

 

[BobWaltersBBQ]

My opinoin, doesn't amount to much but here goes....

The sweet people see on TV is only an addition that offsets the heat and savory spices that are in the rubs. Sugar is the dominant flavor in our culture, sad but true, and that has to be what is tasted first, if you are trying to win over the majority of judges. Layers are key.

All that might be just flat out BS, but then again.....

 

[Full Draw BBQ]

I agree with Bob. The finishing sauce may be sweet (we do it also), but the underlying rubs pack some heat and hopefully offset that. It's all about layering flavors for us. (hopefully)

 

[smoke ninja]

I think sweet bbq is way better than sour bbq.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I have heard for a few years that Blues Hog is on its way out because it is to sweet, but I feel confident that probably 75% use BH or some sort of sauce that is similar. Even rubs are starting to become "sweet". Not all of them of course and I dont really think they are a typical sweet but you have BPS SWEET Money, SM SWEET Seduction, Butchers HONEY, SG SWEET Heat, Obie Cue SWEET etc. etc. etc.

Both at home and at comps i actually prefer a bit sweet and savory on my ribs, though a properly done dry rib is fantastic. I was one of those people that would not put a sauce, any sauce on my brisket and I never got a call. The FIRST time I put a bit of sweet sauce on my brisket 2nd place call.

I think sweet is just as prominent as ever maybe even more than it was in the past.

 

[landarc]

If you taste the rubs that have done well, they are balanced, many of them are far more savory than you might be thinking if you base it on t.v. That being said, I find that rubs such as Simply Marvelous fall on the sweet side, however, you will note that the folks using those rubs are mostly layering in with other rubs. I have been doing that myself, even for just myself. The comp BBQ I have tasted, and this is from some of the better teams in CA, are quite balanced, not the overly sweet that you might think.

Blues Hog, there is still no other sauce quite like it, and for now, I would say it is an easy add to any competitors tool box.

 

[cpw]

This year I plan to compete in 4 competitions. I am still very new to it. I plan to do the type of BBQ I like with a little more flavor for the judges. I will not be turning in anything overly sweet. I know I likely will not win but I want to enjoy what I produce and turn in and enjoy the experience. I hope one day the tide will turn and nice dry rubs will start to win on ribs.
$0.02

While your approach is admirable, I wouldn't waste the money on the contests unless you plan on doing all the craziness that it takes to do well, which includes all of the sweetness, butter, etc.

Back to the original post, I always try to offset the sweet of the sauce with the savory and spice of the rubs.

 

[TalonBrew]

The "OP" on the other thread was reacting to what he "saw". Since you can't see the savory or heat flavor imparted by the rubs, it's impossible to know how sweet the ribs actually are by looking.

I agree with the guys above... it's a balance, and one you can't measure by seeing it on Pitmasters, only by tasting.

 

[CBQ]

Balance and complexity of flavor win. Sweet has to be there, along with savory, heat, and smoke. (Yes, smoke is a spice.)

The shock value makes for good tv (Did you see them put a pound of brown sugar on that pork butt? Hey, they added butter to ribs! Crazy!) but there is a lot of other stuff going on there.

You do need more than just a dry rub to win on ribs though, layers of flavor, complexity, balance will get you a call. We used to be purists too - inject? We will never inject! (We now inject everything - lol)

If you want your comp BBQ to tank, try a vinegar sauce. :becky:

 

[ArnieTex]

Balance works better everywhere, even in Texas, I especially see way out of balance entries especially in jackpots. Some people just over think too much, just good bbq with good balance will get better average in scores which adds up at the final tally. Too hot, too salty, and yes too sweet equals not a consistent winner.

 

[Lake Dogs]

"They aren't judges; they're eaters!" -- Myron Mixon

The sanctioning bodies that I've been in, both as a competitor and as a judge, the BBQ was eaten, not sampled. I think the tiny one-bite-to-impress BBQ sanctioning bodes tend to foster and promote those extremes, notably very sweet. Is it dead in those? I doubt it. But, be careful that they dont take the 2nd or heaven forbid that 3rd bite...

The eater sanctioning bodies, that I know of, never have seen many of the candy-sweet entries, and for the most part, those times when we did, the scores reflected it (not in a good way)... In a blind MBN judging of ribs, if you want to find out which were best without asking, look to the empty box and nothing but bones remaining; most of which were 2 bone pieces, so they were EATEN.

THe ones that were eaten indeed were awesome in their balance of flavor, but more than that, they really hit the mark on tenderness and moisture.

 

[Podge]

sweet=unbalanced.

I balance what needs to be balanced in order to complement the meat I'm trying to enhance.

 

[GrillBillie_D]

Sweet is one layer of flavor. The biggest thing I have learned is that you have to get that balance of flavors in your profile to do well. I've made ribs that were too sweet, and the people that judged it said so. I agreed. Sweet is great, when it is part of a balanced profile, not by itself.

 

[Podge]

I think the discussion gets over complicated and wrapped up in personal feelings and emotions. .

seems to be a lot of discussions like that. :doh:

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Not all competition bbq is sweet. Most winning competition bbq is sweet.:wacko:

 

[Gowan]

This year I plan to compete in 4 competitions. I am still very new to it. I plan to do the type of BBQ I like with a little more flavor for the judges. I will not be turning in anything overly sweet. I know I likely will not win but I want to enjoy what I produce and turn in and enjoy the experience. I hope one day the tide will turn and nice dry rubs will start to win on ribs.

$0.02

Kudos to you if you can maintain that attitude! Not many can, given the effort and expense that goes into cooking Pro contests these days.

Here's a story:
Years ago I judged at a KCBS contest on the Auburn University campus. Afterwards while I was slogging through the deep mud back to the truck and was accosted by an agitated gent who had just completed his first Pro contest and was less than happy with his scores. He expressed his consternation that his BBQ was the greatest (all his friends and family told him so), yet he finished at the bottom of the pack.

I explained to him that his product may well have been good, but over the years KCBS had evolved de factor standards for the sort of entry it took to win, and that one must cook for the judges not his own tastes if you expected to do well. This fellow was outraged. He told me in no uncertain terms that HE wasn't going to change the way he cooked for anybody, no sir! He would just as soon quit cooking these contests if that was what it took to win.

I applauded him for being true to his vision and told him that he was absolutely right to quit if that was the way he felt about it. I've never seen him at a contest since, so I'm assuming he was true to his word and is happily serving up his brand of bbq in his backyard to throngs of appreciative diners.

Moral of the story: Competition BBQ isn't for everyone. There are plenty of accomplished pitmasters who have never cooked a contest and never will.