Explain this to me...

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WareZdaBeef

is Blowin Smoke!
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Let me start by saying, yes smoke ring does not make meat taste any better or worse (well maybe to an extent) but it does make it look better, and when you are happy with taste, why not go for looks right?

Anyway, one thing i have noticed when putting on a nice layered rub to build a nice bark, i am sacrificing a nice smoke ring. If i go all natural with a simple S&P I get a great dark red ring but barely any bark. My theory behind this is the rub is preventing the ring from penetrating into the meat the same way leaving a thick fat cap prevents it.

Now i have from time to time came across pics of briskets with that nice dark red ring and what i would consider a thick bark.

So am i wrong in my theory, or is there some "trickery" at play here?

This image is what really caught my eye:
20120806-daniel-delaney-brisketlab-brisket-barbecue-6.jpg
 
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Does this layered rub you use have salt? I layer my rubs with brisket and my base rub is on the salty side, if not some type of seasoned salt. IMO brisket can take a lot of salt. Salt helps with smoke rings, as does putting the meat on the pit straight from the fridge/cooler. What are you cooking on? Kamados and other cookers that don't use much fuel don't contribute much to a smoke ring.
 
Sprinkle some Morton's tenderquick on first, then layer your rubs......you will have a nice smoke ring then! :tape: :doh:

...I'm kidding of course, but if you really want that smoke ring, that will guarantee it every time. I also agree with JS-TX, you will see more of it with saltier rubs and especially if you season over night or for a few hours prior to putting on the cooker.
 
Cat797 said:
Sprinkle some Morton's tenderquick on first, then layer your rubs......you will have a nice smoke ring then! :tape: :doh:

...I'm kidding of course, but if you really want that smoke ring, that will guarantee it every time. I also agree with JS-TX, you will see more of it with saltier rubs and especially if you season over night or for a few hours prior to putting on the cooker.
Click to expand...

Ive tried the MTQ "trickery" a long time ago and i will point out that not only does it affect taste (not in a good way) it also does not produce a nice dark red ring (it always turned pink)

JS-TX said:
Does this layered rub you use have salt? I layer my rubs with brisket and my base rub is on the salty side, if not some type of seasoned salt. IMO brisket can take a lot of salt. Salt helps with smoke rings, as does putting the meat on the pit straight from the fridge/cooler. What are you cooking on? Kamados and other cookers that don't use much fuel don't contribute much to a smoke ring.
Click to expand...

Usually my first layer is salt and coarse pepper. Its enough to borderline being too salty for most. I let that sort of rest for a few hours in the fridge, then i will add other layers of spices without salt. This allows me to build flavors without adding more salt. After a few hours and a few layers it goes in the fridge overnight.

As far as cooking, i use KBB with wood chunks. I start the meat right out of the fridge then into the smoker at a low temp like 200F for two hours then i raise the temp up to 225-250F until probe tender.

I have repeated this method dozens of times and its always the same results, nice bark=not so nice ring, nice ring= not so nice bark.
 
My bark is never very thick or set (I wrap in foil usually). I get a good pink ring every time. Did not know there was a connection between bark and smoke ring. I'm interested in reading the answers.
 
Nuco59 said:
My bark is never very thick or set (I wrap in foil usually). I get a good pink ring every time. Did not know there was a connection between bark and smoke ring. I'm interested in reading the answers.
Click to expand...

Well, i am not sure there is a connection. I am just tired of theorizing if there is. I want answers damnit!

Btw, this was just a recent chuck i did that as an example of great ring, not so great bark.
100_6979.jpg

100_6982.jpg
 
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Here is a photo of a brisket I did over Memorial Day.
No rub. Just a S&P based seasoning. I consider this a decent bark and smoke ring.

016070f6a3dadf404d5637411bb78788.jpg
 
WareZdaBeef said:
As far as cooking, i use KBB with wood chunks. I start the meat right out of the fridge then into the smoker at a low temp like 200F for two hours then i raise the temp up to 225-250F until probe tender.
Click to expand...

That isn't very hot, I don't think you are getting enough combustion. Have you tried going 225* or hotter right from the start?
 
SirPorkaLot said:
Here is a photo of a brisket I did over Memorial Day.
No rub. Just a S&P based seasoning. I consider this a decent bark and smoke ring.
Click to expand...

Its hard to tell with it already slice and close up shot. What did it look like whole?
 
JS-TX said:
That isn't very hot, I don't think you are getting enough combustion. Have you tried going 225* or hotter right from the start?
Click to expand...

I always got a better ring starting off low. When starting off hot it reaches 140F faster and from my own tests and many others tests from online searches, its seems to suggest the longer the meat stays below 140F w/smoke, the better the ring.

Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.
 
I'm not aware of any direct connection between bark and smoke ring. The best explanation of a smoke ring that I've seen is by Meathead on Amazing Ribs.
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html
But, there may be some indirect connection. Smoker type, cooking temp, mopping/basting/spritzing, wrapping, etc. will affect the smoke ring and bark in different ways. Maybe there's something else you're doing different beyond the layered rub vs. S&P? If not, maybe we can all learn something here.
 
JWACKS said:
I'm not aware of any direct connection between bark and smoke ring. The best explanation of a smoke ring that I've seen is by Meathead on Amazing Ribs.
http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_the_smoke_ring.html
But, there may be some indirect connection. Smoker type, cooking temp, mopping/basting/spritzing, wrapping, etc. will affect the smoke ring and bark in different ways. Maybe there's something else you're doing different beyond the layered rub vs. S&P? If not, maybe we can all learn something here.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, most mopping is done at later stages in the cook where most likely the ring has already formed for the most part. I personally dont spritz,mop..ect..ect but now thinking about it, maybe mopping is contributing to a thicker bark when initially a thin rub is used?
 
WareZdaBeef said:
I always got a better ring starting off low. When starting off hot it reaches 140F faster and from my own tests and many others tests from online searches, its seems to suggest the longer the meat stays below 140F w/smoke, the better the ring.

Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.
Click to expand...

You may need some more seasoning, in this case you have enough salt, so maybe turbinado sugar. That is true with the smoke ring being more prevalent when starting slow but combustion is also important, cooking hotter helps with the malliard reaction and getting more bark. Any pics of the brisket before it goes on the pit?
 
JS-TX said:
You may need some more seasoning, in this case you have enough salt, so maybe turbinado sugar. That is true with the smoke ring being more prevalent when starting slow but combustion is also important, cooking hotter helps with the malliard reaction and getting more bark. Any pics of the brisket before it goes on the pit?
Click to expand...

I don't. Atleast none of anything recent. I tend to forget to take pics at 6am in the morning when im rushing half asleep to get everything going. Plus, when im not happy with looks i tend not to care to take pics. I will take some pics before next weekends cook if this thread isn't buried by then.

btw, I have used tubinado in layered rubs, I suppose next time i will try a more coarse rub. I am thinking i may be adding too much finer spices that are creating a barrier that smoke can't get through. (well nitrate gases or w/e)
 
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WareZdaBeef said:
Remember, the ring isnt the issue, getting both ring and bark is. And i dont have an issue with getting either, its getting them both at the same time.
Click to expand...

How is your taste and tenderness? Have you tried injecting?
 
I almost never get a smoke ring, and if it is there, it's really light. I always have a good bark. I heavily salt my briskets with K. Salt, then heavily pepper it, then lightly sprinkle it with onion and garlic powders. Every once in a while, I'll add some paprika or chipotle powder just for color, but not sure it helps. I have tried rubbing and wrapping in saran wrap, back into the fridge, then on the pit. I have tried out of the fridge, rubbed and directly onto the pit. Not much difference besides the saran wrap seems to pull some of the rub off. Even heard to use celery powder. Sprinkled a little celery salt on my last briskets, no difference, but I was afraid to use too much.

I know my briskets tastes pretty good, it's tender and juicy, and I am happy with that, but would love to find a way to get at least some consistent ring...
 
WareZdaBeef said:
I don't. Atleast none of anything recent. I tend to forget to take pics at 6am in the morning when im rushing half asleep to get everything going. Plus, when im not happy with looks i tend not to care to take pics. I will take some pics before next weekends cook if this thread isn't buried by then.

btw, I have used tubinado in layered rubs, I suppose next time i will try a more coarse rub. I am thinking i may be adding too much finer spices that are creating a barrier that smoke can't get through. (well nitrate gases or w/e)
Click to expand...

Yea.. it's crazy that we lose sleep over cooking some good Q :wink:

I often use up to 3 rubs in my layered approach. I can definitely say the first 2 rubs are your typical grind. My top rub is often course salt and pepper. As of this moment my plan is to cook 2 briskets this Saturday for my b-day party. I'll try to remember to take pics as well.. :mrgreen:
 
bam said:
How is your taste and tenderness? Have you tried injecting?
Click to expand...

Honestly, taste is great when i am sticking to simple S&P. Its when i get a little crazy with layers upon layers of spices trying to build a thick bark i feel i should have used less of this, more of that...As far as tenderness, I have soo many gadgets, its impossible to under/over cook. I am happy in that department.

Injecting, yeah ive tried it, that wouldn't help the bark or ring, but my cooks turn out great flavor and tenderwise without injecting. If i do inject its just homemade beef stock. Stuff is like jello until brought to room temp.
 
If you got taste and tenderness down I say you win. :thumb:
 
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