עָטִין
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 12-05-2012, 06:28 PM   #31
centexsmoker
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 09-22-12
Location: Austin, TX
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by centexsmoker View Post
all of the original live Japanese Wagyu came via the US. Before anybody gets upset, this is from the Australian Wagyu Association...not me:


Wagyu in Australia
Australia received its first Wagyu genetics, a Wagyu female, in 1990. Frozen semen and embryos have been available since 1991 and there have been further imports of live purebreds.

The introduction of Wagyu cattle to Australia has been a costly, long-term project as there has been no protocol with Japan for direct imports. Initially, the Australian herd was greatly influenced by a shipment of five fullblood animals exported from Japan to the United States in 1993. These included the two bulls; Michifuku and Haruki II, and the three cows; Suzutani, Rikitani and Okutani.
I might have understood that wrong. I can't tell if they were just getting the genetics from those animals or they got the animals themselves. Could be wrong here
centexsmoker is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #32
buccaneer
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
buccaneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-23-10
Location: Sunset City Western Australia
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by centexsmoker View Post
I'm cool. I just thought you were getting frustrated by your emoticon so I figured we could just chat about something else. I don't really have a need to be right so I'm cool with whatever comes of this. I have plenty to learn on the subject and am glad to discuss.

As for your concern that some dude on a bbq forum is going to harm the image or reputation of a multi-billion dollar international industry, I think we are safe there. They will be fine and no harm to the industry was intended (good natured smart-assing)

I don't know anything about the local laws or regs there so I'll certainly defer to your local knowledge.

Here is what I based my info on: According to the landing page of the Australian Wagyu Association webpage, they crossbreed wagyu all the time and are openly marketing cross breeding programs. To me, that says that you can cross breed wagyu and still call it wagyu. It has to meet their standards but they wrote the standards so it can be anything they want. Fortunately, they seem to have very high standards and that is a good thing. But they are not just selling 100% wagyu as wagyu and they don't even clam too

It is probably more strict there but make no mistake who sets the regs and writes the standards. It's the AWA. That's their whole reason to exist.
You will find that this is contradictory to your earlier claims that "Wagyu" is just the word for cow.
Also I covered the issue of "pure" already, and that the breeding here is enhancing the heretibility and phenotypic identifiers and progressing them.
All breeding does that, how do you think the Japanese used cattle that were oxen type labour animals into the best eating beef in the world over 200 years?
They bred them.
The issue that we are in disagreement over is that "Wagyu" has no meaning other than a way to market any beef, and that is not so here in Australia.
Don't you remember me posting a list of breed that we use from Japan?
The heretibility and phenotype characteristics is what destinguishes "Wagyu" form other beef, and in Australia we produce a fine series of those products.
We now sell those genes to the USA BTW.
__________________
The only current member banned for life!

Secret Ninja
I miss summer because I like wearing thongs...All Aussies do.

buccaneer is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-05-2012, 06:47 PM   #33
buccaneer
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
buccaneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-23-10
Location: Sunset City Western Australia
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

It is not fair to claim that the point I made about taking any old cow and crossing it with a Wagyu is not allowed to be identified Wagyu here with the massive difference of using a selective breeding program with prime cattle with characteristics that would improve the "wagyu" strain and breeding till the characteristic trait is included in the majority gene pool of Wagyu.
__________________
The only current member banned for life!

Secret Ninja
I miss summer because I like wearing thongs...All Aussies do.

buccaneer is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-05-2012, 07:24 PM   #34
jasonjax
is One Chatty Farker

 
jasonjax's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-20-07
Location: Jax, Fl.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Beef!
jasonjax is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #35
centexsmoker
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 09-22-12
Location: Austin, TX
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneer View Post
It is not fair to claim that the point I made about taking any old cow and crossing it with a Wagyu is not allowed to be identified Wagyu here with the massive difference of using a selective breeding program with prime cattle with characteristics that would improve the "wagyu" strain and breeding till the characteristic trait is included in the majority gene pool of Wagyu.
I guess we are talking about 2 different things. My point all along is that most wagyu beef sold comes from wagyu mixed breeds (no matter how highly engineered) and calling it wagyu is a marketing term. i stand behind that. Wagyu is a brand and it can be lots of different things and that's totally OK.

And i totally get the cross breeding is done to make it "better" and I totally agree with it. It's just not as sexy to call something a wagyu cross breed so they call it wagyu....to market it the way they want to.

I think what you are saying is that the standards for this type of thing are higher there and I believe that's true.....let's all hope so.
centexsmoker is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-05-2012, 10:28 PM   #36
MisterChrister
is Blowin Smoke!
 
Join Date: 04-28-12
Location: Richland Center, WI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Nipple
__________________
Kettleheads Anonymous Platinum Member
MisterChrister is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-05-2012, 11:18 PM   #37
AustinKnight
is One Chatty Farker

 
AustinKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-23-10
Location: Austin Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Squeeze

Sent from my SGH-T999
__________________
|HOOK'EM UDS|MINI UDS|22.5 WEBER PERF|B&B|OAK & PECAN|DIGIQ|TW8060|THERMAPEN ORANGE|Char-Griller Akorn|Thin Blue Smokery|
AustinKnight is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-05-2012, 11:41 PM   #38
buccaneer
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
buccaneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-23-10
Location: Sunset City Western Australia
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Trout!

someone had to say it...it was overdue!
__________________
The only current member banned for life!

Secret Ninja
I miss summer because I like wearing thongs...All Aussies do.

buccaneer is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 12-06-2012, 08:41 AM   #39
jestridge
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Join Date: 12-28-07
Location: annville ky
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Actually Jersey (dairy breed) is one of the best beef, it hard to find and it take around 3 years for them to get big enough for slaughter.
jestridge is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #40
4ever3
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 04-29-12
Location: Owasso, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Have you checked out these folks?

http://m.jacksonville.com/entertainm...uccess-depends
__________________
PBR and Copenhagen are proof that God wants me to be happy!
4ever3 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #41
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
landarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-26-09
Location: Saint Leanders Parish, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by centexsmoker View Post
...

I think what you are saying is that the standards for this type of thing are higher there and I believe that's true.....let's all hope so.
What you say is true for the American market. Australia was allowed to get purebred cattle directly from Japan, the Japanese cattle breeds they have are pure to the genetic strains of the cattle in Japan.

American Wagyu is definitely no more than 50% Japanese cattle genetics, but, this does not mean the beef is not good, in fact, much of the American Wagyu (the more correct terms) is quite good, and it grades out decently.
__________________
The SS Platypus, sails again, to the support of the Vets!

"perhaps...but then again...maybe not..."
landarc is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 12-07-2012, 08:18 AM   #42
captndan
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 06-29-11
Location: Greeneville TN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Eat mo poke.
captndan is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 12-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #43
ODU Dad
On the road to being a farker
 
ODU Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-19-11
Location: Richmond, VA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

My take is that they are all marketing tools that may be of benefit to the consumer. I would bet that CAB beef, as well as Wagyu, is trying to separate from the run-of-the-mill beef. But can you say with absolute certainty that these are inherently superior to USDA "choice" or "prime" beef? I doubt that there are enough standards in place to prevent the technically correct but inferior producers from selling these products.

I would guess that beef is best designed around the geography of their surroundings and a good fit with the breed gives you the best chance of success. And genetics (no cattle equivalent to puppy mills) are always going to be key.

So if you want the best guarantee for superior results, I would have to believe that doing your homework on a particular ranch who sells to individuals or specific markets is your best choice. And expect to pay a premium for the guarantee. Me, I just hang out at Costco and get what looks good.
ODU Dad is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.