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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
I always like these kinds of discussions because I think they will help to improve (not perfect, as you will never please everyone) the scoring system. Comments like "deal with it", "suck it up" etc lead nothing to constructive conversation for what the op was looking for.
JMO here Jason after 10 years of bbq scores and observing this very thing, but the people who need cluing in aren't reading this or any other bbq bulletin board. For the most part "we" are not the problem, we get it. The ones who need to see this never will because they aren't as involved on as many levels as we are.

I used to get my hopes up 8-10 years ago thinking that these issues would be rectified, now I've learned to "suck it up" and "deal with it" so it doesn't drive me crazy. I would love to see improvements but I am not holding my breath.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:01 AM   #32
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The worst is when you get 989589, you wonder, maybe I deserved all 5's? or maybe one judge was a douche and I deserved the better scores. Human judging will never be perfect, and as far as the judging goes it will always be compared to the best entry they have ever had or what in their mind should be the perfect entry. So unless you nail that, its rough. Just move on. 7's are good scores in most parts. Keep it up, you will nail a first next comp! Show the box and we will tell you what you deserved at least in appearance.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rub View Post
JMO here Jason after 10 years of bbq scores and observing this very thing, but the people who need cluing in aren't reading this or any other bbq bulletin board. For the most part "we" are not the problem, we get it. The ones who need to see this never will because they aren't as involved on as many levels as we are.

I used to get my hopes up 8-10 years ago thinking that these issues would be rectified, now I've learned to "suck it up" and "deal with it" so it doesn't drive me crazy. I would love to see improvements but I am not holding my breath.
Yeah and I do get that and certainly as someone still "new'ish" to competitions I may have more of a "youthful faith" that things can change . But my main point was really for more comment cards. In the end I still work on my product and won't let strange scores get me down as I know the way it is now won't change overnight.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTable View Post

As for scoring input. Each card is double checked before "save" is pressed. Top 2, middle 2, and bottom 2, along with any individual score of 20 or less, is audited for each category. We even audit some individual teams that surprise us by being near the bottom when their reputation indicates they are usually higher. Then, when individual team score sheets are printed they are EACH reviewed to make sure no particularly low score may have slipped by for ANY team.
Phil, I'm glad to see that. And I know that you and kathy, ernie and linda do a hell of a job. KCBS reps are the first things I consider when going to a contest.

I did not realize the contest he spoke of with the Cumming, Ga. contest.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DawgPhan View Post
have you ever actually gotten your boxes back after awards?

just asking because I would have never even thought about that.

No, I never had to ask. But if I got a score of 20 points or more, less than what I would assume, I'd have to ask. I usually assume a 10 point swing from what I'd guess I should get. (which is a lot still)..
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:49 AM   #36
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All of this being said, we have all heard that when you thinks it's bad you do well and visa versa. I think a lot of it comes down to the luck of the table. I also think that presentation has a lot to do with your score. I mean if a judge has already given you a 7 in appearance it makes it easier to give lower scores on taste and texture.

I think this contest is well run with Randall and crew paying attention to cooks needs. We will definitely be back.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:53 AM   #37
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Also, to be devils advocate getting straight 7's is pretty consistent.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #38
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It should be a little easier for cooks when detailed scoring is rolled out. In FBA we see how a table scores on all 4 categories. Even see how a judge scores. Believe it or not there really are tables that average 2 points less than others sometimes. Luck of the draw if you hit that one. Also tables that score way high.

In larger contests that draw nationally ranked teams form 1000+ miles away the scores are usually higher and the quality of entries off the chart. A top 10 entry from a local contest may be middle of the pack in these contests.

Like Rub said, we learn to live with it. That or go crazy and lose a lot of friends.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 01:27 PM   #39
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Am I the only guy that thinks 7's making you almost DAL is a problem? With a three points system it's anybody's guess who will win.
It was bound to happen when the "start at 6" judging point went away.

My opinion only!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 01:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford View Post
It should be a little easier for cooks when detailed scoring is rolled out. In FBA we see how a table scores on all 4 categories. Even see how a judge scores. Believe it or not there really are tables that average 2 points less than others sometimes. Luck of the draw if you hit that one. Also tables that score way high.

In larger contests that draw nationally ranked teams form 1000+ miles away the scores are usually higher and the quality of entries off the chart. A top 10 entry from a local contest may be middle of the pack in these contests.

Like Rub said, we learn to live with it. That or go crazy and lose a lot of friends.
The table-level results are coming soon with KCBScore. It's not going to help the 3 point scoring problem though. I have issues with mandating comment cards at a certain score too (like a 5 or below). All that does is gently direct judges to a 6-7-8-9 score.

My opinion only...
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Unread 11-20-2012, 01:55 PM   #41
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I have issues with mandating comment cards at a certain score too (like a 5 or below).
Yeah, It's so freakin' tough to get a pencil out and write "Presentation was great, but the ribs were tough/falling apart/spicy/bland"....

Almost as tough as working 45 hours in a week, preparing for a contest in the evenings, driving for 2-1/2 hours on a Friday after working til lunch on Friday, setting up your cooksite, prepping meat, doing the cooks meeting, prepping more, figuring out WTH you're gonna eat for supper, getting your smoker(s) started, seasoning, putting meat on, forgetting that you haven't eaten, then try to sleep for a few hours in the same seat you drove in earlier in the day.

Yep, writing a sentence or two while eating free food can't be expected...
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Unread 11-20-2012, 02:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Sue View Post
The table-level results are coming soon with KCBScore. It's not going to help the 3 point scoring problem though. I have issues with mandating comment cards at a certain score too (like a 5 or below). All that does is gently direct judges to a 6-7-8-9 score.

My opinion only...
I wonder if a system like Kcbscore could be used to assign a standard deviation to judges based on past contests? You could then even out the tables by assigning a similar number of new, high tendency, and low tendency judges to each table.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #43
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The best thing that could happen would be for some sort of underground website to be formed for contest organizers.

Not only could they trade information about how better to run one, but talk amongst themselves about good or bad contest reps, troublesome teams and those judges that give out poor scores and/or refuse to fill out comment cards.

Kind of like the 'star rating' system that nearly every online review-type site uses. If a judge gets blackballed more than a few times, the organizer can throw that judge's application in the circular file. If that judge all of the sudden realizes he's not getting selected to eat free BBQ on Saturdays, he might wise up or move on to bothering someone else...


KCBS need not spend gobs of money trying to develop some sort of convoluted scoring system to analyze judges...let the organizers compile information from experience.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigs on Fire View Post
Yeah, It's so freakin' tough to get a pencil out and write "Presentation was great, but the ribs were tough/falling apart/spicy/bland"....

Almost as tough as working 45 hours in a week, preparing for a contest in the evenings, driving for 2-1/2 hours on a Friday after working til lunch on Friday, setting up your cooksite, prepping meat, doing the cooks meeting, prepping more, figuring out WTH you're gonna eat for supper, getting your smoker(s) started, seasoning, putting meat on, forgetting that you haven't eaten, then try to sleep for a few hours in the same seat you drove in earlier in the day.

Yep, writing a sentence or two while eating free food can't be expected...
As having been on both sides of the table, I completely agree. I am actually of the opinion that they could be required for ALL scores, and I'm also of the opinion that they could be check lists (examples given in many other threads) so they go much faster than having someone spell out every detail an slow the process....
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Unread 11-20-2012, 02:52 PM   #45
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After a couple of hundred or so contests you tend to build an immunity or at least a tolerance of that one judge on the table...albeit that judge has no idea just how much that ill placed score just costed that team...probably don't care noways. All the sanctioning bodies have appeal proceedures in line....but about all that can truthfully be appealed is the calculations....the judges ate all of the actual evidence. There's no way that anybody can honestly or truethfully say that their leftover ribs or chicken or whatever is EXACTLY the same as what they put in the box. They way I see it...I have told myself as well as others this before....at the end of a contest if you don't like the way the scoring went you only have two choices....be at the next one or stay at home.
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