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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 10-20-2005, 10:18 AM   #31
jminion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsm
The goal is the thickness of a #2 pencil - which is a bit undefined, but with luck, you know what I mean - and some say if the beef is overcooked, then slices of that thickness will fall apart and if the beef is undercooked, then those slices will NOT pull apart and will be unchewable (is that a word?).
Rich this is not anything personel towards you but I have found that what people are taking away from the classes are a misconception.
During a judging class the #2 pencil thing is meant to be a verbal discription of a way to test the tenderness of brisket. It is not a rule, required or mandated that anyone turn-in #2 pencil thick slices. In a perfect world if you find a brisket sliced in this manor and do the pull test, along with taste test, this is the type of texture you would be looking for.

When an instructor then adds if the slices are thicker or thinner it means, this changes the intent of the test. To tell judges that chopped or pulled brisket means that the cook is trying to hide the condition of the texture also makes moot the fact you can turn in pulled or chopped.

This should be discussed and the manor of teaching should be changed.
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Unread 10-20-2005, 11:01 AM   #32
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Yes Jim - I tried to state what I thought that many take away from a CBJ class -
Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
I have found that what people are taking away from the classes are a misconception.
During a judging class the #2 pencil thing is meant to be a verbal discription of a way to test the tenderness of brisket. It is not a rule, required or mandated that anyone turn-in #2 pencil thick slices.
As you know, I had been posting that I use "mouth feel" to judge tenderness, but Jeff in K C's comment in this thread have me pondering this question "If pencil thick slices are what most cooks aim for, do other presentations represent an effort to save - which means poorly cooked meat?" But that means that non-sliced brisket gets marked down - and non-sliced brisket can be OK under the KCBS rules.

So this is on my mind. I'm glad that I am not judging again until the Spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
This should be discussed and the manor of teaching should be changed.
I cannot agree with you more!
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Unread 10-20-2005, 12:15 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC
Then maybe someone ought to point out the arguments made here to Mr. Roith. Doesn't necessarily make it right because he says it, does it? Or does it?
The key to this point is how the point was directed to the judges and worded by the instructor.
Example: The brisket COULD be or MIGHT be etc. etc. etc. or this is a trick that some judges use to help judge the texture of the brisket.

It was obvious to me that several of the judges taking the class were inexperience and I would expect it is possible that some of the judges never tasted brisket prior to that class. I think they will follow these tips and use these guidelines. I don’t think that death was trying to take the judging process out of these new judges hands but simply give them the help and guidelines they needed to help determine a good product.

If I learned anything in the class it is to turn in some slices that will pass the rubber band test. (right or wrong you better do it)
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Unread 05-02-2009, 06:30 PM   #34
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I have turned in pulled and done well with it, as long as it has steak sauce
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Unread 05-02-2009, 08:43 PM   #35
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Here is my nickels worth,

We are going on a lot of hear say, so what is right, and what is wrong.

I believe that we are used to "roast" beef being sliced, so that is what we look for, not only as a consumer, but as a cook, and as a judge. Now this is just my thoughts.... so take it as that....

We are used to pork as pulled pork, and we like to do thighs because they are so forgiving....

So, when do we get out of the norm and do something different... when ever we feel like it... so, what do we do? Do we still do the norm, or think outside of the box.

Are the judges taught wrong, or are we thinking wrong???

I like my beef sliced, because that is what I grew up on... we like burnt ends, right? What is burnt ends, chopped and over cooked brisket, so why not chop it, or pull it? I might just have to try it. If the judge is doing his/her job, they will judge for what is turned in, not what they are expecting.....
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Unread 05-02-2009, 11:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
You can blame the rules, blame the judges, blame KCBS but the fact remains that sliced brisket is what's expected in a turnin box.
And I do blame all 3, dont have rules and then blow them off!
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Unread 05-03-2009, 08:52 AM   #37
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And to think I was going to turn in chicken necks this year.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 09:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsm View Post

OMG - is this an example of the Judicial Activism that Harriet Meyers is being asked about??
No, because we do not have an equivalent to the Burger (Nixon appointee dominated Court) and Reinquist (Regan/Bush dominated) courts which invalidated nearly TWICE the federal legislation the Warren Court did.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 09:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River City Smokehouse View Post
And to think I was going to turn in chicken necks this year.
I think with KCBS chicken neck salad would be legal. I'd leave the bones in too.. take a nice big bite y'all.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 08:10 PM   #40
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Sled....remind me to flog you next time I see you for bringing this one back up from the dead....it had been asleep for nearly 4 years.....chit stirrer! LOL
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Unread 05-03-2009, 08:44 PM   #41
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Right now I am trying to get my Brisket good. If that ever happens I will decide what is the best way to present- maybe 2 of the 3. Until then I will do sliced and hope for the best
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