** PLEASE VOTE *** What direction do you think the KCBS is heading?

Ford said:

I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

1. Mega competition circuit with prize money to support 100+ teams as full time competition teams year round.

2. A backyard BBQ organization to help small contests all over the country to get going and to encourage other people to join our sport.

3. Competition is a small part of the overall goals of the KCBS and there's way to much focus on competition. Let's focus on education (classes for a reasonable rate for John Q. Public) and show people how much fun cooking BBQ is. Add cooking demos like the BBQ tour but have locals do them at a contest and have them sponsored by the KCBS to do the demo instead of cooking. Even allow 10-20 people to join up with 2 -5 teams at a contest and cook with them. Learn what it's all about - and charge a reasonable fee to those people. KCBS compensates teams for this of course but not a lot.

I'd say we'd get about a 50% for #2 and 30% for #3 and 20% for number one. Mods maybe we want to do a poll but probably outside just competition because KCBS is a lot more than competition IMHO.

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

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Ford,
#2 was my crusade. Those backyard events are going to be like the dinasour if changes are not made, or someone steps up to handle them

Why do there have to be limits to one?
Can't it be multi leveled?

Ford said:

I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

1. Mega competition circuit with prize money to support 100+ teams as full time competition teams year round.

2. A backyard BBQ organization to help small contests all over the country to get going and to encourage other people to join our sport.

3. Competition is a small part of the overall goals of the KCBS and there's way to much focus on competition. Let's focus on education (classes for a reasonable rate for John Q. Public) and show people how much fun cooking BBQ is. Add cooking demos like the BBQ tour but have locals do them at a contest and have them sponsored by the KCBS to do the demo instead of cooking. Even allow 10-20 people to join up with 2 -5 teams at a contest and cook with them. Learn what it's all about - and charge a reasonable fee to those people. KCBS compensates teams for this of course but not a lot.

I'd say we'd get about a 50% for #2 and 30% for #3 and 20% for number one. Mods maybe we want to do a poll but probably outside just competition because KCBS is a lot more than competition IMHO.

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

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Ford, I think this is worthy of being a separate thread as well. Let me know and I'll split it and create the poll.

When I referred to the potential that I believe is out there I was referring to potential for all of the above (with the exception of #4).

I strongly agree that education should be emphasized more than I perceive it to be at this time. I do think the current BoD has made some progress in recent years, but would like to see more. In addition, I think that the IRS will likely expect that as well as revenue increases.

KCBS has the infrastructure in place to do all of the above if resources are directed efficiently as they become available. I don't see any of the first three options being mutually exclusive, and actually see them as having the potential to be complimentary.

As for #4, I'd ask why a sanctioning organization would want to handcuff any organizer that was able to qualify for having their contest sanctioned? How does that benefit KCBS? As a member, I'd hope that KCBS would be the sanctioning organization of choice for such large contests.

As for issue #2, I like what KCBS has done with the Competitor Series. It has allowed some flexibility to benefit organizers that would like to try something different, or aren't in a position to put on a traditional contest. That does nothing but benefit the cooks.

I just don't see a need for KCBS to narrow the focus of the organization to one of the options offered. I think it is a better organization if it applies resources and talent to all of them.

Option #5: Into litigation with an angry ex board member who will refuse to go quietly when his term has ended. If you want any names we'll have to go into executive session.

I think the K.C.B.S. should try and focus on both. big comps for the thrill of the big comp and back yard comps to get intrest in the big comps. I think with out the little guy no one looks big. make sense?????

YankeeBBQ said:

Option #5: Into litigation with an angry ex board member who will refuse to go quietly when his term has ended. If you want any names we'll have to go into executive session.

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When I listened to the podcast of the April meeting last week. I thought I heard snoring... :doh:

Personally, I think KCBS needs a mixture of all of the above. They can't forget the smalelr contests. They can't allow them to go to the wayside like how Walmart has done to the local mom and pop grocery stores. We can't let the big organizers bully us around until they get what they want. I find it funny that we had one hold us hostage 2 months ago and now we are welcoming him in with open arms for his 'competitior' series contests. Is our memroy that clouded that the $$$ blind us?

We can't be blind to the fact that is all these monster cash contests are great. How will that effect the little guy wanting to get started? Do we need to have more of those contests like up in Wisconsin that pays no money. You have no chance at winning anything, so it's a loss, but it gets locals out? I think that is far to the extreme as well.

Ford said:

I wanted this separate from the other post.

Question - what direction do you think the KCBS is heading? Here's some options

And opiton 4 - No contest sanctioned by the KCBS can pay out mroe than $10,000 in prize money and must still pay as advertised. So KCBS loses a few big contests (AR and Jack are not KCBS) and we get back to what made KCBS great. Let a for profit group setup a program for the big money contests. But this is just my personal opinion althoug I'd add #3 in with it.

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Ford I'm not sure I'm understanding #4 - is that a suggestion or is it more of a legal issue with non-for-profits and large pay-outs? For whatever reason 10.5K seems to be the payout for a good amount of 65-100 team comps around here.

If limiting the payout is a suggestion, please provide a little background on your thinking to help me understand.

I have not voted yet, but right now I lean towards both the big and small comps.

It will have to be both or the KCBS will fold.

First, with the small comps, these will be what keeps the KCBS running. They'll pay the basic operating costs of the organization. It will continue to get local individuals involved, find new teams that really enjoy the thrill of competiting, and continue to be a fund raiser for the local communities. Without these, individuals who want to spend the time and money won't look at the $500 entry fee contests to just give it a shot (unless you've got 6-8 people going in on them). This is the lifeblood for KCBS and will be so in the future, and realistically, should have a seperate, dedicated committee focused on running these effectively. I have ideas on how this can be improved by the KCBS, but that's a different story for a different day.

The large contests will help drive the growth of KCBS. The Smoke on Water / Kingsford / Sam's will help drive the national recognition of KCBS and can help expand what KCBS can do. Unfortunately, to do this effecively, as has been mentioned, KCBS will have to lose its not-for-profit status, requiring individuals that have a desire to drive KCBS as a business, not an occasional hobby.

KCBS should look at the big sponsors (Kingsford / Sam's) and leverage them differently. Let the Kingsford Series be a national tour the big teams chase while letting the Sam's sponsor regional events targeted at smaller teams (with corresponding weekends that allow for teams to compete in both the Kingsford and Sam's series, or require you to register for one, not both). Then let there be a Sam's shootout with the Top 5 teams from each region competiting in a final competition with Sam's providing all the final meats. Ultimately, you can end up with a tier system, the big money sponsor gets the big money teams, while regionally there can be some draws for the semi-competitive folks to really go after (those that aren't driving all over the country ever weekend).

The organization HAS to evolve, and without individuals with a larger business knowledge, removing the petty crap, and getting committees that are focused at moving the organization from a semi-regional organization to a true National footprint, it just won't work.

Its very simple, unless the KCBS gets over its funk regarding the situation with the girls in the group trying to make their own music so forth, and it's on and off relationship with Appolonia, and unless it starts making music that pleases the crowd, then it will be replaced by Morris' Girl Group that did well at the Taste the other night.

Like Billy said after the KCBS performed "SEX SHooter, "I already got three groups, I don't need fo'!"

Of course, if the father were to blow his brains out after an argument with the wife, well then, the KCBS might take into consideration the stuff Lisa and Wendy made and go BACK to the stage and really whip ass.... I mean perform so good that even Morris and Jerome would be dancing by the bar.

The cynical view.

KCBS wants to be NASCAR. It's becoming all about the money. The direction that I'm seeing is to go to "Superstar" big money made for TV (possible invitation only) comps just like what happened to poker a few years ago. KCBS's only interest in local events it twofold:

• Judging classes - Where the bulk of new KCBS members come from IMHO. Every class generates $40 per student in additional voting members that may or may not have more than a casual interest in KCBS itself. These members probably only stay for a year or two but they serve to dilute the voting pool.

• Dead Money Competitors - Dead money is another poker term for those that enter events but have no shot at the major overall prizes. In KCBS's case, TOY. They want the fees from those casual 2-3 comps per year teams.

Other than that, don't call us, we'll call you.

There was a good point about KCBS committees brought up during the last election . What members are actually on these committees and how does the general membership get involved. I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Truthfully, I don't think KCBS really wants general membership involvement (other than dues)

Remember that not for profit and (non-charitable) non-profits are allowed to generate revenue and disperse it as they see fit and long as they don't pay dividends. Somebody is making money off all this revenue coming in.

Thanks for more info.

I respect your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with them, I have mixed feelings.

I'd maybe suggest the 10K turns in 15K or such as the limit as it sure is nice for us small guys to get a call or two and be able to recoup a large part of our weekend investment (or even come out a few $ ahead) without having to win GC or RCG to do so.

I'm still contemplating my vote.

I'm not seeing a reason that KCBS can't do ALL of the things you've listed. On paper, KCBS exists for the purpose of promoting BBQ and providing education about the same. I don't see competition as being exclusive to that goal, and actually seeing it as being an avenue to accomplish it as I'm sure the founders of KCBS did.

I'm not seeing the difference in the size of the payout, or contest either if the infrastructure is there. Are there enough Reps? If there are, then KCBS takes the check if everything else is in place and the contest qualifies for sanctioning.

With that being said, I WOULD like to see some emphasis put on a program or programs to assist small/startup contests. The Competitor series is a great start! Those type contests are where this organization began if I understand the history correctly.

Frankkly, I don't care what a contest pays. The organizer is responsible for raising funds to pay the teams. If an organizer can raise $100k, that benefits the teams that are willing to make the trip and take their chances. If an organizer can raise $5k, and put on a great contest and do it on a regular basis they are making a great contribution to BBQ and more than likely get teams that are willing to return as well. The money I'm concerned about, is what comes in to KCBS and more importantly what is done with it.

I think there is enough pie to go around. It just needs to be thought out, and planned for over the long haul rather than for the next 6 to 12 months.

Thanks for making me think, Ford.

Big contests bring the bigger sponsors... which then allow you to fund all the educational exploits to help grow the smaller events. I think you have to have both.

I voted for both. Andy ^^^^^ put it pretty good.

The big comps with the big pay-outs are great publicity for our sport - you know the ones I mean: "So & So wins GC at XYZ's $100,000.00 BBQ contest". That headline brings in even more sponsers, teams and dollars to the game.
But what about "Fred's ECB BBQ Team"? The guy that's just starting out and can't afford, or justify, spending a grand to enter a contest? We need the smaller comps to get the teams formed up, entered and having fun at a comp before they decide to go "whole hog".
Think of the smaller comps as the minor leagues and the bigger ones the majors. How many teams just jumped in with both feet at a major comp? Yeah, I know that there are some, but most cooks started out thinking "Well, I'll give this a try & see what happens". Then they get a call or two & they're hooked on this crazy game called BBQ.

Slamdunkpro said:

The cynical view.

KCBS wants to be NASCAR. It's becoming all about the money. The direction that I'm seeing is to go to "Superstar" big money made for TV (possible invitation only) comps just like what happened to poker a few years ago. KCBS's only interest in local events it twofold:

• Judging classes - Where the bulk of new KCBS members come from IMHO. Every class generates $40 per student in additional voting members that may or may not have more than a casual interest in KCBS itself. These members probably only stay for a year or two but they serve to dilute the voting pool.

• Dead Money Competitors - Dead money is another poker term for those that enter events but have no shot at the major overall prizes. In KCBS's case, TOY. They want the fees from those casual 2-3 comps per year teams.

Other than that, don't call us, we'll call you.

There was a good point about KCBS committees brought up during the last election . What members are actually on these committees and how does the general membership get involved. I don't believe these questions were ever answered. Truthfully, I don't think KCBS really wants general membership involvement (other than dues)

Remember that not for profit and (non-charitable) non-profits are allowed to generate revenue and disperse it as they see fit and long as they don't pay dividends. Somebody is making money off all this revenue coming in.

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Kind of what I was trying to get at on the MABA call last week... Only not as articulate.

I should learn to read before voting. I read the thread topic and immediately chose large comps because that appears to be the way KCBS is headed.

My actual position is that there is no reason that all of the above cannot be accomplished. The KCBS mission is "to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbeque as a culinary technique, sport and art form. We want barbeque to be recognized as America's Cuisine". If that is truly the mission, success will not be achieved with just one or the other. There wil be growing pains aplenty and like it or not change happens. Change will have to be managed by the duly elected BOD and we as members have to become active participants and have the responsibility to elect the best, monitor the results and change as needed.

Basically, achieving our goal comes down to marketing. There are 2 levels.
1. We have to effectively market BBQ as a sport to sponsors to keep the sport alive. I think KCBS is doing a pretty good job here.
2. We need to market BBQ as a life style because it is truly "America's Cuisine". All of the pics on this forum alone of parents and children BBQing together are a testament to the importance of maintaining certain American traditions - especially ones that bring families closer. Marketing BBQ as a lifestyle needs the smaller comp/community involvement apsect. In today's fast paced society, the most effective marketing is local. We no longer live in a time with 3 tv stations where big ads were about all it took. Marketing in today's environment requires action or as Levinson coined, Guerilla Marketing. I see the larger comps, tv shows etc as old model paid advertising - less effective at getting the message out than it once was but still effective at reaching a large group and delivering parts of your message. That makes Promoting / supporting the smaller local comps and community involvement guerilla style community marketing. Just like building a business, we have to employ a comprehensive marketing / PR strategy to achieve our mission.

So, I say all of the above.

I think we need both as a new member and new judge. I'm striving to make better Q for me and mine. I don't see myself competing any time soon.
That said there are a lot of Non profit hospitals that make huge money, its all about dividends that not being paid. Yes the money is out there and has to be recycled into KCBS how and where will become even more contentious over time.
As a sport there is one perspective, its a competition. Be it a 'sand lot' or 'Yankee stadium.' I personally am disgusted with how sports evolve into the big money contracts over/instead of love of the game. I could go into a rant but...

Is our goal goal to promote egos or BBQ. I'm not dissing our winners not by a long shot the ones here (the only ones I 'know') are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge and experience.

At MN in May there were probably 30-40% new judges. (Popped my Judge cherry) I didn't get much of chance to talk to the teams, couldn't before judging and everyone looked either busy or tired afterwards. The rigs I saw damn. I'm having trouble just hiding some money aside to finish my UDS. I know its not the cooker its the cook but looking at some of the setups you have to wonder if that isn't what we tell ourselves.

Will KCBS embrace the Brethren motto? And maybe that is the challenge and question for them. And also for US, do we want KCBS to be more like the Brethren?