Can BBQ Restaurants afford to serve great BBQ?

Not being able to afford and knowing how to really do it are entirely different.

Equipment being equal this thing we do is an art and some are much better.

Yes they can, with a limited budget for equipment. They just need to have the BBQ soul, like the legend south Texas BBQ joint.

First off, if you really think about the fact that most restaurants operate on a margin of between 2% to 4% projected profit per food ticket item, you have to consider the reality that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go into the business at all. The primary method for making money in the business is through beverage, where decent soda sales will hit a margin of about 50% total ticket and alcohol, especially full bar, will hit margins of 150% of product cost. NOW you are making money.

In terms of BBQ from home competing with BBQ from a restaurant, and the qualitative of 'is it good?', well, there are some issues there. For instance, I dislike shredded or mushy pulled pork, I also dislike pre-sauced pulled pork. I am, however, of the opinion that I am in the minority there, and that most people prefer sauce on pork strings. To that end, many of the BBQ places around here are very popular, and considered to be outstanding. I have had several friends tell me that I could learn a thing or two. So, I have to assume two things.

1. My friends have poor BBQ taste and judgement (and you can skip the California b.s. These folks are not from here).

2. The fact that I love my BBQ, does not define good BBQ for anyone else.

So, yes, they can, and in the eyes of many, they do serve good BBQ.

They can but they can't afford to waste anything. So that means making sides that can carry over to the next day and selling a finite amount of meat per day. When it's gone, it's gone. They can't afford to have a bunch of cooked briskets not sell. Because of this policy of selling until it's gone their food is in demand and there WILL be a line to get the food.

At least that's my experience with good BBQ places here in Texas. There are no good sit down dinner BBQ places. They can't operate like that.

There is another issue, and that has to do with service. When we cook for ourselves, there are a couple of factors that come into play. One, is that most of us follow the "it's done when it's done" mantra. That works at home, that does not work at a restaurant. People expect their food within about 10 minutes of ordering, there are metrics on this. Which means you have to have the food ready to serve, all the time, all day.

Two, generally, we are all a lot more forgiving of ourselves than of something we paid $20 a plate for. I might not quite nail the 8 racks of ribs I cooked, but, since nobody but me paid for them, and everyone is eating for free, they don't notice. But, turn that into everyone paid $16 for 5 bones, and one is a little tough, well, that is one whole star off on Yelp.

landarc said:

There is another issue, and that has to do with service. When we cook for ourselves, there are a couple of factors that come into play. One, is that most of us follow the "it's done when it's done" mantra. That works at home, that does not work at a restaurant. People expect their food within about 10 minutes of ordering, there are metrics on this. Which means you have to have the food ready to serve, all the time, all day.

Two, generally, we are all a lot more forgiving of ourselves than of something we paid $20 a plate for. I might not quite nail the 8 racks of ribs I cooked, but, since nobody but me paid for them, and everyone is eating for free, they don't notice. But, turn that into everyone paid $16 for 5 bones, and one is a little tough, well, that is one whole star off on Yelp.

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This is very accurate. The "it's done when it's done" mantra gets tossed right out the window at a bbq restaurant. People do not like to wait :crazy:. A common theme around here is things are done when it bends, pulls, sweats, probes, cracks, jiggles or whatever the tell tale done signs are. But those things don't always mean done at a q joint since you have to factor in hold time. So take what you cook at home for a few people and multiply that quantity by 50x (or more) then add the new layer of hold time and reconfigure all of what you know to be true so things don't overshoot.......and don't mess 1 thing up :becky:.

Those that think you can't consistently cook to temps and times and get meat to hit the same window probably haven't cooked in a q joint where the lunch and dinner windows are pretty precise.

And like landarc said if you have 1 piece of meat that is off and you could ruin someone's day and get a bad review.

jimithing78 said:

They can but they can't afford to waste anything. So that means making sides that can carry over to the next day and selling a finite amount of meat per day. When it's gone, it's gone. They can't afford to have a bunch of cooked briskets not sell. Because of this policy of selling until it's gone their food is in demand and there WILL be a line to get the food.

At least that's my experience with good BBQ places here in Texas. There are no good sit down dinner BBQ places. They can't operate like that.

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Around here in GA most bbq places are sit down so kind of the opposite. I actually can't think of any :crazy:.

You are definitely correct that waste can be a killer in a bbq restaurant. Any restaurant that is true, but many other types of restaurants fire to order. So if you have a burger joint the fresh patties you didn't sell today can probably be used again tomorrow with little to no difference. Too much leftover bbq meat can turn into waste. Of course the meat can get repurposed into things like stew, fried ribs and baked beans, but you have to estimate accurately or money can get lost quickly.

Margins are slim unless you sell lots of booze. Staffing costs have to be monitored at all times and so many other things make it tough. Hard to put out consistently great food for a q joint and please everyone. Take brunswick stew for example. One of our best selling sides and people praise it, but if it isn't what you are used to then we have had some extremely bad reviews calling it all types of hilarious things :loco:. This last year has definitely been interesting for me. The stories are endless and pretty crazy. Glad we are pushing happily forward into 2015.

Most q joints probably wouldn't please most guys on this forum, but to the ones that stay open and are successful I applaud them :clap2:.

And sometimes the restaurant just serves some great Q. We were out of town last weekend and had lunch at a BBQ restaurant with multiple KCBS comp awards. The ribs and burnt ends were eye opening and showed me there is a lot of room for improvement in my efforts.

As a side note they did have a sign up that some of the prices would be increasing due to beef prices going up.

Beef prices are unavoidable, the factors have not changed.

landarc said:

Beef prices are unavoidable, the factors have not changed.

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?? Not quite sure what the point of your post is. I ate a a restaurant that in my opinion served some superior meats. There was a 10 minute line to order at 1PM Saturday afternoon. To be fair I only cared for one of the 3 sides I tried. They do not serve liquor but have been in business for at least 6+ years and have opened 2 more locations since. It is a business that has been recommended by one of the BBQ Brethren mods on different threads. In fact that is part of why I chose to take my family there.

I added the info about their prices being raised as an aside to show what restaurants are being forced to do because of the recent rise in beef prices. It had nothing to do with my point that a restaurant serving a superior product can be successful.

I didn't mean to confuse the issue. I have been in other discussions of late where people are complaining about the price of brisket and beef climbing, and some folks accusing restaurants of gouging. When I state that beef is going up due to some very real issues, I get told I'm naive.

I certainly didn't mean to offend or question your comment

We have a BBQ restaurant not far from us that has trophies all over his walls, and pictures of well known legends. His Q is mediocre at best. It is also overpriced in my opinion. However, there are always 10 to 15 tables full every time I have been in there around lunch time. I have only been there more than once simply because I was meeting someone else there that had picked it out because they knew I loved BBQ. I always get the usual questions re: This is good stuff isn't it? What do you think about this BBQ?

I try not to degrade their thoughts or brag on "my verses this BBQ" just to be a polite guest. I try to be neutral without much discussion about the quality or taste. Most of the people I have been there with, have never been to one of my cooks, nor do they cook Q themselves.

I do miss living in Texas where I could find some decent Q joints if I knew where to go. There may be some good eateries here in Ga. but I have not found them in my travels.

Omar

landarc said:

I didn't mean to confuse the issue. I have been in other discussions of late where people are complaining about the price of brisket and beef climbing, and some folks accusing restaurants of gouging. When I state that beef is going up due to some very real issues, I get told I'm naive.

I certainly didn't mean to offend or question your comment

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Got it. I know the meat loaf I cooked on the Akorn tonight cost a bit more than it did last year.

retired trucker said:

We have a BBQ restaurant not far from us that has trophies all over his walls, and pictures of well known legends. His Q is mediocre at best. It is also overpriced in my opinion. However, there are always 10 to 15 tables full every time I have been in there around lunch time. I have only been there more than once simply because I was meeting someone else there that had picked it out because they knew I loved BBQ. I always get the usual questions re: This is good stuff isn't it? What do you think about this BBQ?

I try not to degrade their thoughts or brag on "my verses this BBQ" just to be a polite guest. I try to be neutral without much discussion about the quality or taste. Most of the people I have been there with, have never been to one of my cooks, nor do they cook Q themselves.

I do miss living in Texas where I could find some decent Q joints if I knew where to go. There may be some good eateries here in Ga. but I have not found them in my travels.

Omar

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Well, if you have a hard time finding good Q in GA, imagine what it is like for me in MN! I'll be spending some time in the Austin area in the near future, that should be an education.

Wish I was with you! I lived in Austin for about a year in the 80's. Great place to find good Q and real Tex-Mex!

Omar

retired trucker said:

We have a BBQ restaurant not far from us that has trophies all over his walls, and pictures of well known legends. His Q is mediocre at best. It is also overpriced in my opinion. However, there are always 10 to 15 tables full every time I have been in there around lunch time. I have only been there more than once simply because I was meeting someone else there that had picked it out because they knew I loved BBQ. I always get the usual questions re: This is good stuff isn't it? What do you think about this BBQ?

I try not to degrade their thoughts or brag on "my verses this BBQ" just to be a polite guest. I try to be neutral without much discussion about the quality or taste. Most of the people I have been there with, have never been to one of my cooks, nor do they cook Q themselves.

I do miss living in Texas where I could find some decent Q joints if I knew where to go. There may be some good eateries here in Ga. but I have not found them in my travels.

Omar

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Omar most q joints in ga are price about the same from my research. I think the misconception is BBQ is cheap. It may be at home, but take food cost add labor, overhead and well it gets more expensive. When I first saw the numbers it was very eye opening.

fnbish said:

Omar most q joints in ga are price about the same from my research. I think the misconception is BBQ is cheap. It may be at home, but take food cost add labor, overhead and well it gets more expensive. When I first saw the numbers it was very eye opening.

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This is very true right here. Q at home is cheap. It comes from what used to be undesirable cuts of meat so the cost was low and all you had to do was spend time cooking it.

Unfortunately in the business world, time is money. Having to pay to cook bbq is expensive because the cook times are so long. Add in even more man hours if you are using a stick burner and have to man the pit vs using a gas or electric assisted pit. That overhead has to be paid which means the price of hte bbq goes up.

fnbish said:

When I first saw the numbers it was very eye opening.

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Exactly why I'm not in the business... Wife knows I have many years restaurant experience and am a pretty darned good BBQ cook (per her). She has said probably 1,000 times (no joke) "you should have a BBQ joint".
The margins are just too small. Here in GA they expect the sit-down experience. BBQ isn't "made to order", so keeping it fresh (to the standard that I'd require) is extremely difficult, and frankly, NOT INEXPENSIVE.

BBQ, when it's fresh and cooked well, is darned near magical to eat. However, it doesn't take long to lose that magic and become ho-hum. Even at ho-hum, it's still tough to make ends meet. Around here they must SELL SELL SELL the liquids to make a profit.

Franklin in Austin TX has it right. But, getting going he probably had a lot of sleepless nights and a tough time making the rent until he built the reputation that he so rightfully deserves. Yes, if you can get people to come in and order like this, you can turn out top-of-the-line Q.

landarc said:

There is another issue, and that has to do with service. When we cook for ourselves, there are a couple of factors that come into play. One, is that most of us follow the "it's done when it's done" mantra. That works at home, that does not work at a restaurant. People expect their food within about 10 minutes of ordering, there are metrics on this. Which means you have to have the food ready to serve, all the time, all day.

Two, generally, we are all a lot more forgiving of ourselves than of something we paid $20 a plate for. I might not quite nail the 8 racks of ribs I cooked, but, since nobody but me paid for them, and everyone is eating for free, they don't notice. But, turn that into everyone paid $16 for 5 bones, and one is a little tough, well, that is one whole star off on Yelp.

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Wasn't it Myron Mixon that said "If you want to know how good your barbecue is start charging for it."?

But I agree with everything you've said. It is an entirely different animal when you start cooking for the public. Especially in a restaurant situation. I've known friends that took the leap and ultimately got out of it because it was just too much stress and not enough fun. People will ooh and ah over your Q when you're giving it to them for free. But when you start charging them $20 per plate they all of a sudden become very, very picky and critical.