Thoughts on Pasture Raise Brisket

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mikerooooose

Knows what a fatty is.
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Hello everyone!

This is my first post — although I'm a long-time lurker.

Here is Chicago we have an awesome butcher shop that gets some awesome beef from a place called Lapryor Farms (http://lapryorfarms.com). The farmer chooses not to get their meat graded/labeled, but it's easily prime. The fat is very soft and starts to render off at room temps. Any cut taste 100x better than anything I've picked up from any local grocery chain.

I wanted to see if anyone else is doing pasture raised briskets. These are grass fed, but it looks like they also feed corn before they go to market. I noticed this style of beef cooks a lot differently than your normal packer brisket.

First, there is no stall, at all. It just cruises through from 160-180 without hanging. Second, because there is no stall it cooks very fast, I would say around 45-60 minutes a pound @ 250.

My last cook was very good, although some parts of the flat were pretty dry and tough. I had to chop them up with some fat for sandwich meat. It was a 12lb brisket that I trimmed down to about 10lb — maybe I took too much fat off?

I've read that lowering the temps is required for cooking lean grass fed meat and will try that next. I think I was up to 275 at one point, and I've heard you are suppose to do 50 degrees less. My next cook I'll probably do it at 210-225 and try to move it away from the fire more (I'm cooking on a Big Green Egg so that's always the hard part).

I've also read that you're not suppose to go as high in temperature with lean/grass fed meat and I took this last brisket to ~203. The point and the meat right in the middle between the flat and point were great, but like I said the flat suffered from it.

Does anyone else have any experience with this kind of meat, and have any other recommendations? I've heard some people use a Jaccard, some marinate or inject. I haven't gotten into any of that yet.

Thanks!
Mike

brisket.jpg
 
Welcome to the forum!
I'm not sure if I am reading this right. I'm half awake this morning. lol :oops:

All beef is pasture or grass fed. The "finishing" part is what differs. It looks like this beef is grain "finished" to add marbling. (my personal favorite).

Most beef is grain finished but some folks prefer grass finished. A leaner meat.

I'm not seeing the difference in this beef as opposed to most meat sold at the grocery store.

Again, I'm not fully awake and am probably missing something.
 
Actually most packers you buy at the store will be corn fed (among other things) throughout their entire lives (after they are weaned). They might eat some grass while out to pasture, but not nearly the same amount.

Think of it this way. If you put two plates in front of your kid for dinner — one plate with ice cream, one plate with broccoli — which once do you think they would fill up on first? The corn probably taste better to them, but it's not necessarily the "right" choice.

This beef is only grass fed most of it's life, and then a little bit of corn (relative) near the end of it's life so it's much leaner. Also, as a result the cow must get a little older to get to the same size.

I enjoy the taste of this beef — I'm just looking for some tips on how to get the flat more tender.

The butcher told me to keep some more fat on it because it's so lean, so I'm not going to trim it as much as I did (the picture above is pre-trim). I also read that a lower temp might help. Anything else I can try?

Thanks!
Mike
 
We have a couple of those type of farms here. How much did that packer cost though?? They want like 21.99/lb for a farking brisket. My mind cannot grasp paying that much ever.
 
I cook pasture finished, or grass finished beef a couple of times a year. I still like to trim to white fat, removing the stained or yellowed fat. I don't trim as aggressively as I trim with grain-finished beef. If the beef is Prime or better in your opinion, and the fat renders as you say, I cannot believe it is grass-finished, even the really sweet grass we get in Norther California and Oregon will not raise up that fat a steer.

In any event, I cook grass-finished packers the same as I cook regular packers, that is to say, I trim off the thin tapered edges. I prefer a thicker edge on my brisket, and even though I lose some meat, I get a better, more even cook by trimming off the tapered edges. I cook between 275°F and 300°F, and that is based on where my UDS likes to run. I never jacquard, marinate or paste brisket. Not to say you shouldn't experiment, but, I like the simplicity of just putting a rub on and cooking it. Generally my rub is a simple salt/pepper/onion/garlic rub with about 2%-5% of sugar added for kicks. I prefer the hotter temperature for all brisket, lean meat or fat meat, it all reacts about the same to heat.
 
Another question, did you wrap it at all during? I'd absolutely do a wrap. You might be able to inject to get some more moisture and tenderness, but at that point do you really even need the premium for that kind since I'd guess a lot of it's different flavor would then be lost.
 
spyre said:
We have a couple of those type of farms here. How much did that packer cost though?? They want like 21.99/lb for a farking brisket. My mind cannot grasp paying that much ever.
Click to expand...
Wow! :shock: I will pay a lot for a really good steak, but, over $20 a pound, we need to be talking Wagyu or Prime+ or I am walking. Never for brisket.
 
spyre said:
We have a couple of those type of farms here. How much did that packer cost though?? They want like 21.99/lb for a farking brisket. My mind cannot grasp paying that much ever.
Click to expand...

Haha. This butcher charges $7-9/lb. So a decent size brisket will run you close to $100. I live in Chicago though so I'm pretty much immune to sticker shock.

It's also more of a special occasion thing — like when my parents visit. It taste so damn good I want to do it justice on the smoker. :grin:
 
spyre said:
Another question, did you wrap it at all during? I'd absolutely do a wrap. You might be able to inject to get some more moisture and tenderness, but at that point do you really even need the premium for that kind since I'd guess a lot of it's different flavor would then be lost.
Click to expand...

I wrapped in butcher paper, but for less than two hours until it go to ~190. It was delayed a because I kept watching the temp go up and was waiting for the stall that never came. I don't think I wrapped it until ~175 when I decided that the stall wasn't coming.

That will be something I adjust next time as well.
 
landarc said:
I cook pasture finished, or grass finished beef a couple of times a year. I still like to trim to white fat, removing the stained or yellowed fat. I don't trim as aggressively as I trim with grain-finished beef. If the beef is Prime or better in your opinion, and the fat renders as you say, I cannot believe it is grass-finished, even the really sweet grass we get in Norther California and Oregon will not raise up that fat a steer.

In any event, I cook grass-finished packers the same as I cook regular packers, that is to say, I trim off the thin tapered edges. I prefer a thicker edge on my brisket, and even though I lose some meat, I get a better, more even cook by trimming off the tapered edges. I cook between 275°F and 300°F, and that is based on where my UDS likes to run. I never jacquard, marinate or paste brisket. Not to say you shouldn't experiment, but, I like the simplicity of just putting a rub on and cooking it. Generally my rub is a simple salt/pepper/onion/garlic rub with about 2%-5% of sugar added for kicks. I prefer the hotter temperature for all brisket, lean meat or fat meat, it all reacts about the same to heat.
Click to expand...

We're pretty much in the same boat. I coated in mustard, made a rub of just pepper, salt, and a little bit of granulated garlic. I usually like to keep it very simple.

In fact, another thing I didn't mention is that I didn't use a water pan this time — which I think caused the higher temps. I decided not to use one because it was like 70% humidity, and I wanted to experiment with getting a better bark. The bark turned out great and crunchy. I don't think water/moisture level was a problem as I could hold my hand over the top vent on the egg and it would leave a good amount of moisture on my palm after just a few seconds.
 
mikerooooose said:
Actually most packers you buy at the store will be corn fed (among other things) throughout their entire lives (after they are weaned). They might eat some grass while out to pasture, but not nearly the same amount.

Think of it this way. If you put two plates in front of your kid for dinner — one plate with ice cream, one plate with broccoli — which once do you think they would fill up on first? The corn probably taste better to them, but it's not necessarily the "right" choice.

This beef is only grass fed most of it's life, and then a little bit of corn (relative) near the end of it's life so it's much leaner. Also, as a result the cow must get a little older to get to the same size.

I enjoy the taste of this beef — I'm just looking for some tips on how to get the flat more tender.

The butcher told me to keep some more fat on it because it's so lean, so I'm not going to trim it as much as I did (the picture above is pre-trim). I also read that a lower temp might help. Anything else I can try?

Thanks!
Mike
Click to expand...

I raise beef cattle for a living and live in the middle of cattle country. Not one rancher that I know of feeds his cattle corn throughout it's life. They would go broke. The cattle are raised on pasture.
I agree about the grain being like candy to cattle. They love it... but have to be introduced to the grain slowly when fattening for slaughter.

Wish I had the money it would take to feed a herd of beef cattle on grain their whole lives. I'd probably retire and purchase a deserted island. :mrgreen:

I'm sure the meat you are purchasing from a local farm is far tastier than anything you could get at the store. Also it looks like they DO pasture feed and grain finish. (my personal favorite flavor wise)

Best of luck with your cooks! :thumb:
 
BGE's hold moisture well in my experience. I do use a water pan, over the platesetter, because is it not my BGE and the last time I made a mess, my buddy got upset. Soooo, now I put a water pan in, filled with 2" of water just to keep things tidy. But, totally not needed. I like fat on my brisket, so I tend to leave the cap on as much as possible, with true grass-finished beef, I prefer the added fat (although, some folks don't like the taste of the fat off of a grass-finished steer).
 
landarc said:
I cook pasture finished, or grass finished beef a couple of times a year. I still like to trim to white fat, removing the stained or yellowed fat. I don't trim as aggressively as I trim with grain-finished beef. If the beef is Prime or better in your opinion, and the fat renders as you say, I cannot believe it is grass-finished, even the really sweet grass we get in Norther California and Oregon will not raise up that fat a steer.

In any event, I cook grass-finished packers the same as I cook regular packers, that is to say, I trim off the thin tapered edges. I prefer a thicker edge on my brisket, and even though I lose some meat, I get a better, more even cook by trimming off the tapered edges. I cook between 275°F and 300°F, and that is based on where my UDS likes to run. I never jacquard, marinate or paste brisket. Not to say you shouldn't experiment, but, I like the simplicity of just putting a rub on and cooking it. Generally my rub is a simple salt/pepper/onion/garlic rub with about 2%-5% of sugar added for kicks. I prefer the hotter temperature for all brisket, lean meat or fat meat, it all reacts about the same to heat.
Click to expand...

Good post Bob.

Mike's original post and the link provided state that the beef is grain finished. That's what was throwing me off about being "grass fed" or "pasture fed".
They are still finished with grain.
 
In Alabama most cows are "pasture fed" until it comes time to finish them. I dont think you could afford to feed them corn which was supplemented by pasture until slaughter. We grow 600-800 acres of corn each year. Once picked we then cut it to turn it into silage that helps offset the amount of hay we have to keep up with in the winter. The Silage is mostly the corn plant, not actually kernals of corn. We use those giant rolls of hay to feed during the winter, and early spring. Mostly when your pasture grass is done. I do think that if you only had a few cows you could feed them corn all the time, but that would still be pretty expensive.

We dont have cows. My uncle does. We have corn, soybean, cotton, and alfalfa.

All of that to say, I prefer grass fed and grain finished. I do prefer grass fed, and grass finished for ground meat. I just think the burgers have a beefier flavor.
 
I know a little bit about cattle, my uncle had cattle in Idaho from the 1920's to the 1990's, he ran those doggies :wacko: for a good long time. By the time I got to talk to him about it, he had a system. He grew hundreds of acres of corn and sugar beets, the corn plants became silage, the beet greens he fed green, the corn he sold to the feed lots, that bought his cattle, thus assuring a lower price for fattening. In the end, the silage lowered his grain costs, although he grew his own hay and alfalfa, the silage and beet greens made his cattle waddle like a fat man, and he got a premium at the feed lot. Plus, they bought all of his corn. He did alright. His cattle spent most of their time on BLM "open" range with several other ranchers, so round-up was a group effort. And grazing costs were minimal. All of this lead to my cousin being able to get out of the cattle business altogether.
 
cowgirl said:
I raise beef cattle for a living and live in the middle of cattle country. Not one rancher that I know of feeds his cattle corn throughout it's life. They would go broke. The cattle are raised on pasture.
I agree about the grain being like candy to cattle. They love it... but have to be introduced to the grain slowly when fattening for slaughter.

Wish I had the money it would take to feed a herd of beef cattle on grain their whole lives. I'd probably retire and purchase a deserted island. :mrgreen:

I'm sure the meat you are purchasing from a local farm is far tastier than anything you could get at the store. Also it looks like they DO pasture feed and grain finish. (my personal favorite flavor wise)

Best of luck with your cooks! :thumb:
Click to expand...

This is coming from my father-in-law who lives in Nebraska and has cattle and also grows corn, soy, etc... — maybe Nebraska has a surplus?

I know a lot of the Nebraska cows eat that mushy/wet by-product that comes from the ethanal plants — maybe that is cheaper?
 
I'm not 100% sure on your question but I'll provide my experience.

For home cooks - for family and friends that I like, we use organic, grass fed, GMO free beef, pork, chicken, etc.

When it comes to Beef brisket/packers it does cook differently than your Walmart/Kroger/HEB (etc.) pieces of meat. While I have found more marbling in my meat, it tends to be a little more lean and has less hard white fat. I can cook a 10lbs Organic/Grass Fed right next to a 10lbs Store Bought slab and the Grass fed will take about 60 to 90 minutes less and has a much better flavor for me. Both taste great...
 
Distillers Grain is the nice name attached to corn and barley that has gone through the process of having the alcohol produced from it. The jury is still out on the effects of DG as a cattle feed product. It is definitely lower in sugars and far less nutritious than corn for feed, as the sugars and many of the minerals have been pulled from the grain. It is also much cheaper than corn to feed cattle. There are concerns about sulphur poisoning as well as other health issues with it's use. However, with the focus and mandates in place for use of ethanol, and the massive waste from corn ethanol production (a horribly misguided mandate) there will be no change in the use of DG for livestock feed.

Although I have had some outstanding beef from Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma, almost all of the beef I buy, except for packers, comes from the Pacific Northwest or California. None raised on DG.
 
GMDGeek said:
I'm not 100% sure on your question but I'll provide my experience.

For home cooks - for family and friends that I like, we use organic, grass fed, GMO free beef, pork, chicken, etc.

When it comes to Beef brisket/packers it does cook differently than your Walmart/Kroger/HEB (etc.) pieces of meat. While I have found more marbling in my meat, it tends to be a little more lean and has less hard white fat. I can cook a 10lbs Organic/Grass Fed right next to a 10lbs Store Bought slab and the Grass fed will take about 60 to 90 minutes less and has a much better flavor for me. Both taste great...
Click to expand...

Noticing the same thing. There is really no bad fat on the thing, even the "corn" piece is usually all white and melts a little. It kind of reminds me of duck fat. Maybe I should just leave a lot more fat on. I wish I would have taken a post-trim picture to compare the two. :)

I'm asking do you do anything differently compared to the Wal-Mart brisket as far as prep and/or smoking? Or do they both usually come out about the same with the same prep and smoke temp/times? Maybe I just had a bad cook last time. :)

Do you still bring it up to a high temp? 195-205?

Thanks!
 
I would note that I do the same thing except for the trim, and I have no idea what my internal temperature is, as I cook entirely by feel for brisket. I either probe or squeeze the brisket to tell when it is done. No idea what IT I cook to, as that is a random number that is too variable to trust
 
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