Table of Death

Red Valley BBQ

Red Valley BBQ

is one Smokin' Farker
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Tell me again about how there is no such thing as the table of death....

Table%20of%20Death.jpg


Out of 25 teams, table 315 was a beast:

Chicken: 5th, 10th, 18th, 21st, 24th, and 25th
Ribs: 16th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 23rd, and 25th
Pork: 17th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, and 25th
Brisket: 5th, 9th, 16th, 23rd, 24th, and 25th
 
That table sucks.

With 4 tables at least everyone had to get on it. If there were 5 tables the comp would have been decided on luck (not landing there) as much as skill.

The shame is that the judges at the table have no idea. Some kind of feedback to the judges would be beneficial.
 
What sanction? Score sheet certainly doesn't look kcbs
 
Not all teams landed on this table. Some teams landed on it once, some twice, and some not at all.

It was a KCBS event.
 
A box distribution like that shouldn't happen.

A twenty five team contest with four tables would give each table six boxes on three entries and seven on the other. It would also put one box from each team on each table. If what you're saying is right, then someone farked up. :shock:
 
Red Valley BBQ said:
Not all teams landed on this table. Some teams landed on it once, some twice, and some not at all.

It was a KCBS event.
Click to expand...
I would take this info and call the KCBS office. I would also ask for the e-mail address of the person who is in charge of the reps. In a 25 team cook-off, every team should have hit this table only once. Every team once and only once.

This is an example of dereliction of duties. There can be no excuse other than an inept set of reps.
 
Robert said:
I would take this info and call the KCBS office. I would also ask for the e-mail address of the person who is in charge of the reps.
Click to expand...

rep@kcbs.us

Robert said:
In a 25 team cook-off, every team should have hit this table only once. Every team once and only once.

This is an example of dereliction of duties. There can be no excuse other than an inept set of reps.
Click to expand...

It is very possible that the error here lies with the table captain's, and not necessarily with the reps. In the majority of the contests I have either judged or TC'ed, the TC's are responsible for ensuring that they are not having repeat entries at their table. If a TC forgot to cross off a particular box from their sheet, and if the rep noticed this after the judging had been completed as they are entering the scores, how were/are the reps inept? I don't know the Baroody's, and they might be completely useless, but just want to point out that there could be an alternate explanation
 
DUBBAGA said:
rep@kcbs.us



It is very possible that the error here lies with the table captain's, and not necessarily with the reps. In the majority of the contests I have either judged or TC'ed, the TC's are responsible for ensuring that they are not having repeat entries at their table. If a TC forgot to cross off a particular box from their sheet, and if the rep noticed this after the judging had been completed as they are entering the scores, how was are the reps inept? I don't know the Baroody's, and they might be completely useless, but just want to point out that there could be an alternate explanation
Click to expand...

The reps are there to insure a fair evaluation of the cooks talent. It's their responsibility to make sure everyone hits on all the tables on a 4 table contest. They should double check the TC's sheet to make sure. They farked up period!
 
I've worked the Turn-in table at five contests this year (helping the REPs - building trays to go to the tables) and it is indeed the REPs responsibility to ensure that boxes are evenly distributed and not hitting any table more than once unless there are less than four tables of judges.

The person building the trays (my job) checks to see if a box number has been on that table before, and the Table Captain should double-check when they are scratching out the number on the TC sheet and let the Turn-in table know if they have a repeat box number. However, it still all falls to the REP as final authority at the contest to ensure that judging is as fair as possible.
 
Never had a tray built for me, but if they were being built for the TC's in Covington, then agreed that it is on the person building the tray for the errors.

Sure the reps are ultimately responsible for everything that happens, but if they aren't notified of a problem until after the event is over, that doesn't automatically make them inept
 
DUBBAGA said:
Never had a tray built for me, but if they were being built for the TC's in Covington, then agreed that it is on the person building the tray for the errors.

Sure the reps are ultimately responsible for everything that happens, but if they aren't notified of a problem until after the event is over, that doesn't automatically make them inept
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I know a set of reps around here that will not release trays until all boxes have been renumbered on a 4 table contest, just for this reason. I trust their contest and will pick their contest if i have to chose between two contest on a specific weekend....instead of chasing the dollar.:grin:
 
In a 24 or 25 team contest, you can't just let the first three tables take their trays and go based on them not having seen those numbers. Trays have to be held or the boxes still coming in cross checked against the 4th table to insure that they have not judged them. It is not as easy as it sounds and it does mean that some boxes are delayed. Some reps do that and some do not believe that it is fair to those who turn in early. It is not a hard and fast rule.

Brisket works out because every TC ends up with the list of 6-7 teams that they haven't seen, but pork is the bigger challenge.
 
The solution is simple. You should never cook another contest with those 2 reps. I would also make sure to mention it to any other contest organizers that you speak with. You will not spend money to cook a contest with those reps. Eventually the reps will stop appearing at contests and things will improve.
 
I would like to know the historical scoring for the judges at that table. I'm pretty certain they will have a history of low scores. With 25 teams, it's possible for a team to never hit that table, and it gives than an unfair advantage in the contest.

The best option is mandatory judge seating based on historical average judging score. Balance all the teams, and it's fair to everyone. There is a lot of emphasis in fixing judge education now in KCBS, and that's not a bad thing, but all of the education in the world isn't going to create an army of judging clones that have the same perspective on everything. Assume judging reflects differences in people, and seat them to minimize the impact of human nature.
 
CBQ said:
I would like to know the historical scoring for the judges at that table. I'm pretty certain they will have a history of low scores. With 25 teams, it's possible for a team to never hit that table, and it gives than an unfair advantage in the contest.

The best option is mandatory judge seating based on historical average judging score. Balance all the teams, and it's fair to everyone. There is a lot of emphasis in fixing judge education now in KCBS, and that's not a bad thing, but all of the education in the world isn't going to create an army of judging clones that have the same perspective on everything. Assume judging reflects differences in people, and seat them to minimize the impact of human nature.
Click to expand...

It would get rid of many of the problems cooks complain about. I would like to see it go further than just seating arrangements. I would like to see judges who consistently judge below the average and for that matter above the average asked to not come back until the had a refresher that addresses the possible issues of their first instruction or the subsequent altering they went through talking with other judges with the wrong outlook. Having been on both the judging side and the cooking side I have had contact with judges who, after a short conversation, show me they have no right being in the judges tent. Judges who say things like "the burnt end shouldn't be sweet, after all it is beef" or "I don't give 9's because no one makes excellent 'cue". These are actual statements and not just stuff I am making up. I have a whole catalog of them. Other sanctioning bodies do it for their judges I think its time for KCBS to institute something as well.
 
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