Hot and fast finish temp?

Uncle Buds BBQ · Jan 28, 2015

Any competitor want to share the temp they pull at when cooking hot and fast?

I did my first HnF cook this past weekend. Cooking on a Backwoods Party G2 and took the temp up to 325. It floated up to 400 for a while and then settled down to the 325-350 range.

Put on a Walmart 11lb brisket and 2 9lb butts. Internal temp on all 3 went to 200-205 range in 4 hours. Let them rest for 2 hours before slicing and pulling.

Both were under cooked. The brisket probed like butter in about 75% of the flat and the butts bone wiggled but felt a little tight.

I have heard that you need to take the finish temp higher when cooking HnF but how high? When I cook low and slow my beef and pork can turn to mush at 205 degrees.

Oh, and I let them both vent all of steam before they rested in the cambo for 2 hours. Left the temp probes in and the internal never increased but decreased.

Thanks for any input.

JD McGee · Jan 28, 2015

Temp is just a ballpark...we pull ours when the meet feels right...ie our thermapen slides in with little to no resistance in the flat.

gettinbasted · Jan 28, 2015

I do mine on direct heat on my drum, so it might be different. I've had a brisket stall at 212 before.... It is important that you go by feel, not temp, but a brisket will be at least 210 and as high as 215. Pork is 205-210

eap0510 · Jan 28, 2015

Dave,

I have also been messing around with hot and fast brisket cooks and I normally pull mine around 210. They have been turning out a lot better then when I was cooking them low and slow. Since switching to hot and fast they are coming out a lot more tender and not as dry.

-Eric

Uncle Buds BBQ · Jan 28, 2015

eap0510 said:
Dave,

I have also been messing around with hot and fast brisket cooks and I normally pull mine around 210. They have been turning out a lot better then when I was cooking them low and slow. Since switching to hot and fast they are coming out a lot more tender and not as dry.

-Eric

Thanks Eric. I'm going to try again this weekend.

Uncle Buds BBQ · Jan 28, 2015

gettinbasted said:
I do mine on direct heat on my drum, so it might be different. I've had a brisket stall at 212 before.... It is important that you go by feel, not temp, but a brisket will be at least 210 and as high as 215. Pork is 205-210

Thanks. I always go by feel but these higher temps are freaking me out!

Ron_L · Jan 28, 2015

Yeah... it takes time to render the internal fat and connective tissues and with a hot cook there isn't as much time for that to get done, so the finish temp is higher when it's finally tender.

ThomEmery · Jan 28, 2015

We are doing a hot and fast practice cook this weekend
#fun

ITBFQ · Jan 28, 2015

Next time I practice pork, I'm going to give hot and fast a try. Any other tips? Obviously not looking for a portion of a class for free, just pointers.

tduffy · Jan 28, 2015

I'm gonna guess it would be no different than us low and slow cooks. I don't cook to temp but to feel.

gettinbasted · Jan 28, 2015

ITBFQ said:
Next time I practice pork, I'm going to give hot and fast a try. Any other tips? Obviously not looking for a portion of a class for free, just pointers.

Watch the amount of sugar in your rub and your wrap

BobWaltersBBQ · Jan 29, 2015

I cook at 300. 11-12lbs brisket is right at 6 hours and 210. 8lbs butts hit 205 in just under 8 hours.

Jason TQ · Jan 29, 2015

tduffy said:
I'm gonna guess it would be no different than us low and slow cooks. I don't cook to temp but to feel.

Right, but many people that frequent competitions have a temp that is a guideline to start checking for "feel". Do you just use the force to instruct you on when to do this?

rikun · Jan 29, 2015

I do HnF all the time, brisket is usually about 210-215 when it feels like butter.

Butts, I honestly don't know. Nowadays they always turn out dry for me even though they pull nicely and the bone wiggles free.

aawa · Jan 29, 2015

ITBFQ said:
Next time I practice pork, I'm going to give hot and fast a try. Any other tips? Obviously not looking for a portion of a class for free, just pointers.

Trim the fat aggressively. I remove the fat cap completely from my pork butts.

Wrap based on color instead of internal temperature. If your rubs are heavy with sugar, you will have to wrap the meats probably around the 3.5-4hr mark. If you do not have a heavy sugar based rub you are looking to wrap between 4-4.5hr mark. That is what I have found cooking hot and fast.

Your doneness is by feel and not by internal temperature. The guideline internal temperature will be north of 200 before it probes tender or the bone wiggles out.

ITBFQ · Jan 29, 2015

aawa said:
Trim the fat aggressively. I remove the fat cap completely from my pork butts.

Wrap based on color instead of internal temperature. If your rubs are heavy with sugar, you will have to wrap the meats probably around the 3.5-4hr mark. If you do not have a heavy sugar based rub you are looking to wrap between 4-4.5hr mark. That is what I have found cooking hot and fast.

Your doneness is by feel and not by internal temperature. The guideline internal temperature will be north of 200 before it probes tender or the bone wiggles out.

Thanks for that tip. I would have assumed one would leave the fat cap on and cook fat cap down. Are you going cooking them direct or using some kind of a diffuser?

SCSmoke · Jan 29, 2015

ITBFQ said:
Next time I practice pork, I'm going to give hot and fast a try. Any other tips? Obviously not looking for a portion of a class for free, just pointers.

Pay attention to the color before wrap more than temp. I find it is close to the usual 160 mark but often a little past.

gettinbasted · Jan 29, 2015

ITBFQ said:
Thanks for that tip. I would have assumed one would leave the fat cap on and cook fat cap down. Are you going cooking them direct or using some kind of a diffuser?

I do this to protect the meat and am usually wrapped by 3 hours in. The meat is done in 1-2 hours after that. Keep in mind that different cookers will do H&F differently. Direct heat on my Gateway is way different than indirect on an offset or cabinet even at the same temperatures.

ITBFQ · Jan 29, 2015

gettinbasted said:
I do this to protect the meat and am usually wrapped by 3 hours in. The meat is done in 1-2 hours after that. Keep in mind that different cookers will do H&F differently. Direct heat on my Gateway is way different than indirect on an offset or cabinet even at the same temperatures.

Thanks! I plan on experimenting on H&F pork on my WSM. Key word here - experimenting. I know I will mess up several butts before I am even close to getting it right.

aawa · Jan 29, 2015

ITBFQ said:
Thanks for that tip. I would have assumed one would leave the fat cap on and cook fat cap down. Are you going cooking them direct or using some kind of a diffuser?

I cook on a UDS with no diffuser. I do put the side the fat cap I trimmed off pointed down. I always wrap based on color instead of time or internal temperature. This way I know the butt isn't scorched on the bottom.

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