Better turn in your best...

bradgreer · May 24, 2016

I have been reading a frustrating post on Facebook about KCBS CBJ and sampling multiple preparations in the same box IE brisket slices and burnt ends for example.
What was a bit disconcerting was how many judges said that if they were presented two items one being excellent and one being not nearly as good, that they would score the entire entry based upon the lower score!! :shocked::mad2::tsk:

So if you submit brisket slices that are excellent (9) and burnt ends that are a (7) they would score the entry as a 7, when it clearly states in the handbook not to do it this way.

If the KCBS doesn't think that the judging system needs some "tweaking" they are up in the night.
At the very least, the judges should be on the same page.

Scottie · May 24, 2016

I am done spending money on a lot of contests because of judging. KCBS is dragging g ass on fixing this lroblem. Wait until other teams completely quit because of it. Unfortunstely, all the bitching and complaining falls on deaf ears. Or on ears that don't want to hear it..

Blanton · May 24, 2016

First two this year for me have been record number of entrys. Always new fish for KCBS

ITBFQ · May 24, 2016

bradgreer said:
I have been reading a frustrating post on Facebook about KCBS CBJ and sampling multiple preparations in the same box IE brisket slices and burnt ends for example.
What was a bit disconcerting was how many judges said that if they were presented two items one being excellent and one being not nearly as good, that they would score the entire entry based upon the lower score!! :shocked::mad2::tsk:

So if you submit brisket slices that are excellent (9) and burnt ends that are a (7) they would score the entry as a 7, when it clearly states in the handbook not to do it this way.

If the KCBS doesn't think that the judging system needs some "tweaking" they are up in the night.
At the very least, the judges should be on the same page.

I was reading the same post a few minutes ago and thought the exact same thing. "You aren't there to cook for me, I am there to judge for you." Uhhh, ok. Then do it the way the book says to.

Ron_L · May 24, 2016

ITBFQ said:
I was reading the same post a few minutes ago and thought the exact same thing. "You aren't there to cook for me, I am there to judge for you." Uhhh, ok. Then do it the way the book says to.

It's been a while since I took the CBJ class, but I don't think the book handles this situation. If a judge has multiple samples from the same box that vary in quality I don't think that there is a prescribed way of scoring.

If you think about it, the judge can't be expected to ignore the poor quality sample and just score on the higher quality one. Should they try to figure out an average score? Or score the entry as described above, based on the poor quality sample? I'm not sure, but if there is a lesser quality sample in the box it should be accounted for somehow.

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

I just did the CBJ class in April and we were taught per the handbook to grade on the "overall impression of the meat." This specific question came up and the rep did a good job explaining that we should "average" our scores together (without actually using the word average - he was pretty diplomatic in how he put it per the rules) if they are different for multiple types of turnin.

That being said, I'm not convinced that all judges follow this guideline. My topic I just posted about 'Interpret brisket score' seems to elude to this very issue. I turned in slices of flat and burnt ends on my last brisket and my tenderness scores ranged from a couple 6's to a couple 9's. Now, I think most reasonable BBQ judges can discern between a 6 and a 9 on brisket tenderness. So, based on what others mentioned, I'm of the belief that some of my burnt ends weren't excellent for tenderness and I was scored down for the burnt end without factoring in the better tenderness of the slices.

Jorge · May 24, 2016

enasnidx said:
I just did the CBJ class in April and we were taught per the handbook to grade on the "overall impression of the meat." This specific question came up and the rep did a good job explaining that we should "average" our scores together (without actually using the word average - he was pretty diplomatic in how he put it per the rules) if they are different for multiple types of turnin.

Purely out of curiosity, were you told that cooks spend a lot of money? After that was it ever suggested that maybe they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

tduffy · May 24, 2016

ITBFQ said:
I was reading the same post a few minutes ago and thought the exact same thing. "You aren't there to cook for me, I am there to judge for you." Uhhh, ok. Then do it the way the book says to.

considering we paid to be there and they didn't I'm going to say it's the other way around.

Burnt at Both Endz · May 24, 2016

Seems pretty simple to me....only put your best meat in the box. As cooks we have control over that, you can only control what you can control. Sounds harsh, I know!

ITBFQ · May 24, 2016

Ron_L said:
If you think about it, the judge can't be expected to ignore the poor quality sample and just score on the higher quality one. Should they try to figure out an average score? Or score the entry as described above, based on the poor quality sample? I'm not sure, but if there is a lesser quality sample in the box it should be accounted for somehow.

I agree. I just think it would be nice if there was a consistent way for judges to account for it. Less confusion for judges when they judge a box (like mine) that have a lesser quality sample.

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

Jorge said:
Purely out of curiosity, were you told that cooks spend a lot of money? After that was it ever suggested that maybe they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

I don't recall the specific verbiage or if that was said.

tduffy · May 24, 2016

Burnt at Both Endz said:
Seems pretty simple to me....only put your best meat in the box. As cooks we have control over that, you can only control what you can control. Sounds harsh, I know!

This is spot on.

Because we as cooks know that there is not only this inconsistency but other inconsistencies in the judging process between judges, play the game to your advantage. Not only put your best in the box but always be thinking about what you are doing and if doing so has more of a chance of hurting you than helping. The entries at the top of the score sheets are usually not "mind blowing" BBQ. It was BBQ that offended the least or gave no judges any reason to score it down.

bradgreer · May 24, 2016

"You should sample some of each type presented and base your score on the overall
taste/tenderness/texture of all samples"

This is from the 2016 CBJ handbook

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

Burnt at Both Endz said:
Seems pretty simple to me....only put your best meat in the box. As cooks we have control over that, you can only control what you can control. Sounds harsh, I know!

Not too harsh. Like you said, control what you can. Hence, the appropriate title for the thread. But in a game of inches, it'd be nice to know that judges are at least on the same page when it comes to scoring those multiple presentation turn in boxes.

rob g · May 24, 2016

bradgreer said:
"You should sample some of each type presented and base your score on the overall
taste/tenderness/texture of all samples"

This is from the 2016 CBJ handbook

I believe there was a clarification published in the Bullsheet last year to the effect that judges do not have to take one of each type of meat sample in the box. They can take one or all. If they only take one then the team is scored on that piece.

carlyle · May 24, 2016

From an organizers perspective, hearing cooks tell other cooks to only put their best

in the box seems like a sound strategy for better scores.

JD McGee · May 24, 2016

I have not seen that post yet on fb...will check it out. I have been cooking several years now...mainly PNWBA and the scoring has been fairly consistent. KCBS on the other hand has been a crap shoot from day one.

My wife took the PNWBA Judging Class this past weekend and came away very impressed with what she was taught...and she is hard to impress!

We are both taking the KCBS Judging Class this weekend in Coos Bay just to see what the hell they are teaching so we can try to be a little more consistent in our turn ins...

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

rob g said:
I believe there was a clarification published in the Bullsheet last year to the effect that judges do not have to take one of each type of meat sample in the box. They can take one or all. If they only take one then the team is scored on that piece.

You are correct. In the class I just took we were told that we SHOULD take a sample of each but are not required to. Likewise, the team is not required to turn in six pieces of each sample. They need only turn in six total pieces. In theory, I could turn in three slices and three burnt ends and be just fine.

cpw · May 24, 2016

enasnidx said:
You are correct. In the class I just took we were told that we SHOULD take a sample of each but are not required to. In theory, I could turn in three slices and three burnt ends and be just fine.

You technically could, but talk about playing with fire!

enasnidx · May 24, 2016

cpw said:
You technically could, but talk about playing with fire!

Agreed!

Better turn in your best...

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