Brisket: Does This Make Sense?

SmokinAussie said:

Yes, I think we've all learned something here.... not quite sure what... but something.

If a Brisket is a she, do you think she prefers her fat cap up, or down?

I'm off to the PB now...

Byeeeee

Bill

Click to expand...

NO! Never talk about a female brisket having a fat cap! Or being fatty or having to trim any fat! It's a fight you CANNOT WIN! Your female brisket is always perfect just the way she is. Trust me, pick your battles carefully.

Anyway, I subscribe to the "time/temp relationship theory". IMHE, cooking any large piece of meat isn't as black and white as choosing between "hot & fast" or "Low and slow" It's about balancing the cooking temp with you desired finishing time. Yes, cooking "hotter" will make the meat cook faster, but I believe it also increases evaporation and CAN, but will not necessarily result in the outside being more done than the center an/or incomplete fat rendering.

We've all had that experience of eating something that is cooked too fast- like a frozen chicken wing or something where the outside is done, but the middle is still cold/raw. I think there are similar things at play when cooking BBQ.

IMHE, even increased heat will not have the same effect on the breakdown of collagen as longer exposure to lower temps, because the "time" plays a bigger role in the relationship than the "temp" does.

I always plan to cook large pieces or meat for as long as I possibly can, because I like the results better. I have cooked many butts and a couple briskets at what would be considered "hot & fast" but I still prefer the texture and flavor of the ones I cooked longer and lower. IMHE, they have more flavor, less unrendered fat and are more juicy.

Greg60525 said:

I cut a 6.7 lb brisket flat in half to do an injection/rub comparison. So, if your going by time per pound I figured about 4 - 5 hours. I foiled the brisket with some of the leftover injection at ~ 170°F and cooked for about another hour ending with the temp at 206°F. The pit temp was 250°F. The main goal was a flavor comparison. When I was done I was able to make my judgement on taste, but the tenderness, although good for sandwiches, was not competition quality tender. I was pressed for time and wasn't overly concerned about it, but I want to check my understanding of what has occurred.

So, here's my understanding.........please correct, comment, etc..

Although a smaller brisket will come up to temperature quicker than a larger one, that is not the whole story. It is a time/temperature relationship because it's the connective tissue that has to break down to make the brisket tender. The internal temp of 206°F is quite a bit higher than I take the 10 pounders, but it reached it so much quicker, which makes sense due to its small size. To me it would seem that it would take the connective tissue the same amount of time to break down in a small brisket as it does in a large brisket and the only difference in the total cook time is the time it takes the internal temp to get to a predifined temp. The larger one taking longer.

I think this makes sense. What do you think?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

What you call connective tissue is actually Collagen it is the Glue that holds muscle fibers together to form tissue. Collagen begins to melt at 180 deg once it is fully melted above 190 it has changed into Gelatin. It is the gelatin that gives meat it's moisture this is why and under cooked brisket is Dry and Tough. cooking H&F the meat will push past the 190 point before the collagen has been fully converted this is what a H&F brisket finishes at a much higher IT. This same principle explains why a smaller piece needs to go to a higher IT to reach the same level of tenderness & moisture. You will never achieve a level of consistency cooking to an internal temp. Read the Basic Rules for BBQ Success.

BBQ RULES FOR SUCCESS

"YOU CAN NOT COOK GREAT BBQ ON A CONSISTENT BASIS COOKING TO AN INTERNAL TEMP OR BY TIME(XXX MIN PER LB) YOU MUST COOK BY FEEL!"For a Brisket that is probe tender in the thickest part of the Flat, Pork Butts when the Bone wiggles lose, Ribs pass the Bend Test. These are the only reliable methods to indicate the proper time to declare the cook completed with success.

Starts a little lower, Blu......

http://www.scienceofcooking.com/meat/slow_cooking1.htm

Otherwise, great description......:wink:

I Stand Corrected! Book marked for future ref.

I am still a firm believer that somehow there is some magic quality (has to be science behind it ..I just don't know it) about cooking bigger pieces of meat and lots of meat at once that somehow imparts a better tenderness and even flavor.

I have my lay-person non scientific opinions on it. Like maybe the additional thermal mass of the meat regulates the temperature better and maybe the release of so much moisture as the connective tissue adds to the humidity.

I'm still noodling on what makes it taste better. Maybe the meat releases something into the air of the cooker.:idea:

Bludawg said:

What you call connective tissue is actually Collagen it is the Glue that holds muscle fibers together to form tissue. Collagen begins to melt at 180 deg once it is fully melted above 190 it has changed into Gelatin. It is the gelatin that gives meat it's moisture this is why and under cooked brisket is Dry and Tough. cooking H&F the meat will push past the 190 point before the collagen has been fully converted this is what a H&F brisket finishes at a much higher IT. This same principle explains why a smaller piece needs to go to a higher IT to reach the same level of tenderness & moisture. You will never achieve a level of consistency cooking to an internal temp. Read the Basic Rules for BBQ Success.

BBQ RULES FOR SUCCESS

"YOU CAN NOT COOK GREAT BBQ ON A CONSISTENT BASIS COOKING TO AN INTERNAL TEMP OR BY TIME(XXX MIN PER LB) YOU MUST COOK BY FEEL!"For a Brisket that is probe tender in the thickest part of the Flat, Pork Butts when the Bone wiggles lose, Ribs pass the Bend Test. These are the only reliable methods to indicate the proper time to declare the cook completed with success.

Click to expand...

Just when BD annoys me with his sometimes terse responses he posts crap like this that makes me like and respect him again. Hehe.

So what did you conclude from your comparison?

what did you use for each?

I believe your assesment is correct....

I have been cooking brisket points when I can find them, and they take almost as long as a full packer to reach the proper tenderness.

The first time I did this I was quite surprised when I assumed the smaller cut of meat (approx 4lb) would be done in half the time...I just wrap them earlier in the cook, and let them sail until probe tender.