KCBS Membership & BOD Candidate Disappointment

I gave my husband a KCBS membership as an anniversary present in 1999, simply because of his love for BBQ. I became a member in 2001 when I enrolled us in a CBJ class, and we are lifetime members now. I admit, the only reason I joined was because I didn't want to wander around aimlessly while he judged, but I wouldn't change a thing.
What are my benefits? Making countless friends and going to places I would have never gone otherwise. I think KCBS has been a community for much longer than most members can imagine.

I do not disagree that KCBS is competition-centric and while I am in agreement with Steve in that I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on how KCBS can cater more to the needs of the backyard BBQer, I just don't know what that might be that you can't get in other places. My gosh, take a look at the Q-Talk forum here and there's a danged LIFETIME of knowledge and information. But if you have ideas, please send me an email at jstith@kcbs.us and I'll be glad to discuss them with you.

And to the person (don't recall who it was) who said they voted for change and still don't see it on the board, I will say it is not for a lack of trying sometimes. There are three of the four of us left from last year but I believe we've said all along that it may take an election or two to really make a difference. Folks, we are in need of some new ideas all across the slate of KCBS. Whether you run for the board, support someone who is running with good ideas or just want to share your ideas, just do so! I started up a Facebook page for myself JUST to be present and accessible any time. Contact me. It's not up to twelve board members to think of all the good ideas. That's not happening - no matter who is on the board. We rely on members to make suggestions and come to us saying things like "Hey, the other day, I had this really great idea that I'd like to share with you for KCBS and maybe it can be fleshed out into something awesome". Obviously there are those of you with dissatisfaction. Don't just tell me you aren't happy... tell me why and offer some suggestions. Thanks... off my soapbox now.

YankeeBBQ said:

With that being said I am curious what a 'backyard barbecuer' is looking for from a bbq organization. What services do you think would be beneficial ? What would give a membership to KCBS value to you ?

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Jeff_in_KC said:

I do not disagree that KCBS is competition-centric and while I am in agreement with Steve in that I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on how KCBS can cater more to the needs of the backyard BBQer, I just don't know what that might be that you can't get in other places. My gosh, take a look at the Q-Talk forum here and there's a danged LIFETIME of knowledge and information. But if you have ideas, please send me an email at jstith@kcbs.us and I'll be glad to discuss them with you.

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Candy Sue said:

I probably should slap my fingers off the keyboard! <<I hear you, Jorge...>>

KCBS gives back plenty. Ask the kids of KCBS members who applied for and received a grants in aid to help pay for their education. Ask the organizations who received grant money to further their missions, from a kids' group buying cookers to senior Q. Things like this aren't shouted from the rooftops and not near as interesting as slinging dirt around.

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I was solely a backyard guy, but have now competed for the last 5 years. As input, the thing that pops into my mind is the American Homebrewers Association (AHA). I was a member 20 plus years ago and the thing that was most valuable to me was their magazine, which was packed full of information about brewing, and I assume still is. In comparison, the Bullsheet has very little information about BBQing.

Look at the Smoke Signals magazine put out by The BBQ Brethren. It addresses things that are of interest and importance to both teh competition cook and the backyard cook. Sure you can point to that and say its already available to everyone, but as "America's BBQ Expert" (or whatever that phrase was that they trademarked) why isn't KCBS putting out a publication that addresses ALL of BBQ? Experts are useless if they don't put their expertise to good use.

Also AHA was a voice for legislation, etc., that affected homebrewing. Where is KCBS with respect to BBQ issues such as communities that put restrictions on outdoor cooking, or issues that come up with health departments at competitions, etc.?

Maybe KCBS is involved, but as a member I sure don't know about it.

Whatever KCBS is doing should be shouted from the rooftop! Members are supporting the organization, and KCBS should be shouting about what they are doing in return.

boogiesnap said:

i think if KCBS openly, publicly, and tranparently declared how much money an organizer pays to them per contest and what charities our membership fees are given to and for what there would be much, much less chatter.

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If you are that interested in the information, then it is readily available.

Go sign up at http://www.guidestar.org/ and search for KCBS, and you can see the latest tax returns and see where the money is going. Guidestar makes available financial information on not for profit organizations. I usually check out any not-for-profit before I donate. May not get all the detail from a tax return, but you can generally see where the money is coming from and going to.

Big Poppa said:

I wonder who has the most ignores here?

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Since we're asking arbitrary questions, I've got one of my own: When the BSA sued you for something that you feel was just a technicality, put you on the news, made a very public example out of you, and you went on your FOSS campaign removing as much proprietary software as possible and "telling any one who would listen" about about how you didn't want Microsoft in your business, would you have decided that your losses didn't mean anything if a random Windows user told you he was tired of hearing about it? And besides, is telling people that they can get by without being a KCBS member really that different from telling people they can get by without buying Microsoft Office?

dmp

I was going to just read this thread and glean from it whatever thoughts and facts I felt useful. However Candy Sue's post, followed by some other borderline vitriolic comments, has prompted me to comment.

There is not doubt in my mind that the KCBS does a great job in supporting BBQ competitions. And while there is some grumbling about the fees charged for sanctioning an event it does seem to me to be reasonably fair. Especially when you consider there are other options out there like MIM and MABA, just to name a couple.

I am not yet a KCBS member and have been seriously considering what value I would get out of joining. I am considering entering BBQ competitions and also taking a CBJ class. My lovely wife is willing to indulge me in this and has expressed a desire to do both with me. (She sure is a keeper!!) I have looked at the KCBS mission statement and was pleased to see there was no apparent bias to support of competitive BBQ. However, there was no obvious, to me, or visible support of the backyard hobbyist.

Candy Sue's post clarified that for me significantly. It was clear, to me, that in her position as President of KCBS her primary interest was to support competitive bbq. She didn't say she was not interested in supporting the backyard hobbyist. But the absence of any statement acknowledging that the backyard hobbyists are important to the KCBS leads me to conclude that they aren't, at least to her. I respect her stated bias and can appreciate where she is coming from. But as a prospective member it has done nothing to encourage me to join. I want any organization I join to be inclusive, not exclusive. And from what I have read in the KCBS mission statement the goal is to be inclusive. So I find that Candy Sue's position hard to reconcile with the KCBS mission statement.

Moving on to the comment about it being only $35 to join. Would it make a difference if the fee was $100, $200, $1,000? Or would it be more reasonable to understand that people want to get value for their money. And if they question the value of what they have rec'd, then perhaps they have a right to question that. Being judgmental only serves to devalue a discussion such as this.

The OP really put himself out there. He had serious questions and he did ask them in a very respectful way. I think he deserves to be treated the same way.

And finally dmp - does he have an axe to grind? Of course he does. Is he justified? I have no idea and frankly I don't think anyone other then dmp or the BOD can answer that question honestly. I think he has as much a right to post his thoughts on issues such as what the OP raised as you or I do. Do I think he goes a tad far at times? Yes. However, I can honestly say if I was in his shoes I would most likely be a lot more emotional and my commentary would not be nearly as measured as his.

So, my 2 cents worth. Nuff said from me on this.

Brian

dmprantz said:

Since we're asking arbitrary questions, I've got one of my own: When the BSA sued you for something that you feel was just a technicality, put you on the news, made a very public example out of you, and you went on your FOSS campaign removing as much proprietary software as possible and "telling any one who would listen" about about how you didn't want Microsoft in your business, would you have decided that your losses didn't mean anything if a random Windows user told you he was tired of hearing about it? And besides, is telling people that they can get by without being a KCBS member really that different from telling people they can get by without buying Microsoft Office?

dmp

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I think he has you on "ignore" per your request :wink:

Low blow Dan. No need to get personal.

Scottie said:

Low blow Dan. No need to get personal.

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Everything I mentioned is public information, and Sterling has claimed in interviews to be quite happy with where he is as a result. I can only hope to be as satisfied with my situation in 15 years as he is now. My intent was not to get "personal" and dive into private information, but to ask if the similarities between situations might not deserve a closer inspection.

dmp

bmonkman said:

...
Candy Sue's post clarified that for me significantly. It was clear, to me, that in her position as President of KCBS her primary interest was to support competitive bbq. She didn't say she was not interested in supporting the backyard hobbyist. But the absence of any statement acknowledging that the backyard hobbyists are important to the KCBS leads me to conclude that they aren't, at least to her. I respect her stated bias and can appreciate where she is coming from. But as a prospective member it has done nothing to encourage me to join. I want any organization I join to be inclusive, not exclusive. And from what I have read in the KCBS mission statement the goal is to be inclusive. So I find that Candy Sue's position hard to reconcile with the KCBS mission statement.

...

Brian

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There's one word in the mission statement that encompasses all the competition part -- SPORT. I am very interested in backyard barbequers and backyard competitors (started off as one myself!), but it's the SPORT of BBQ that generates the passion in KCBS members. Unfortunately, that passionate core is probably only 20% or less of the total membership.

My opinion is that reading all the information out there (and there's alot of it) on competition barbeque will make you a better backyard cook. The eaters in my family all agreed that my cooking improved considerable when I became interested in competition barbeque. So, my opinion is that any backyard cook can learn lots from reading about competition.

With that said, I will request that the Bullsheet committee consider more general barbeque cooking material in addition to Paul Kirk's Recipe Xchange.

And, I really appreciate your commments!

Hey it doesn't matter....

I never questioned anyone's right to speak.. I did point out that many might be tiring of it.

When bad things have happened I have tried to make something good about it....there are 1000's of businesses using open source due to our example.

Same with a health issue that struck a my family.....kids all over the world are on medicines our foundation paid for the research and living near normal lives.

Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

Candy Sue, thanks for your reply.

May I be so bold and suggest that the BOD consider having a standing committee whose would be to develop strategies to promote and foster the art of BBQ in all of it's forms. And that the members of this committee consist board members, competitive bbq'ers and that at least half of the members be non-competitive bbq'ers.

I think if this were to be setup a large part of the concerns raised here would be addressed.

Brian

Candy Sue said:

There's one word in the mission statement that encompasses all the competition part -- SPORT. I am very interested in backyard barbequers and backyard competitors (started off as one myself!), but it's the SPORT of BBQ that generates the passion in KCBS members. Unfortunately, that passionate core is probably only 20% or less of the total membership.

My opinion is that reading all the information out there (and there's alot of it) on competition barbeque will make you a better backyard cook. The eaters in my family all agreed that my cooking improved considerable when I became interested in competition barbeque. So, my opinion is that any backyard cook can learn lots from reading about competition.

With that said, I will request that the Bullsheet committee consider more general barbeque cooking material in addition to Paul Kirk's Recipe Xchange.

And, I really appreciate your commments!

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Big Poppa said:

Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

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This has nothing to do with what an organization with an all volunteer BOD can or cannot be to everyone. In fact, I think that suggestion is extremely wide of the mark. It has to do with, in my opinion (and perhaps the OP can correct me if I am wrong), a member who feels his expectations were not met and that he wants to be heard. I really do think it boils down to wanting to be heard.

I have always felt that when an organization stops listening to everyone then that is an organization with issues. There really is no reason in my opinion that the orignal OP's issues/concerns could not be addressed. It comes down to resources, priorities and motivation. If the will of the BOD is that something be done about the issues raised here then something will be done. If the BOD feel the backyard hobbyist's interests aren't important to the goals of the organization then nothing will happen.

Now I do have a question because I don't understand what you meant when you said "I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point." Are you suggesting that KCBS sanctioned events cost the same when it comes to entry fees?

Brian

Big Poppa said:

I never questioned anyone's right to speak.. I did point out that many might be tiring of it.

....there are 1000's of businesses using open source due to our example.

Now,onto the topic....it would be great if a non profit foundation with a board of 12 volunteers could be everything to everybody. I believe bbq is better because of kcbs and further believe that competition bbq is much better because of them. I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point.

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FWIW, I've been a supporter of FOSS for years. I use such programs daily, and have contributed to many of them. I'm also a professional developer who gets paid for that type of work and appreciate that the two are different. Custom software puts food on my table.

Believe it or not, I try to get through my daily posts here on The Brethren without bringing up my situation with KCBS. Most people are aware of it, and I would hate to be a complainer always mentioning it. I didn't even start the two long threads on the topic. If I come across as ranting about that situation, it's not my intent.

I have felt for some time that cooks, competing and otherwise, should not feel obligated to join KCBS. My reasons, without getting into all the details, are well documented and precede my current situation. I feel that there is a lot of peer pressure and bullying on this forum to make people who don't join feel badly, and I don't appreciate that. The topic comes up several times a year without me instigating, and just like one poster always adds to those threads that KCBS helps his foundation, I try to always add that it is not required and people shouldn't feel badly for not re-upping. I've always said that if you appreciate the bennefits, go for it, but it's not worth it "just because." In this particular instance I had a fairly negative interaction with KCBS the day that the OP was made, so I'll admit I may have been a bit further over the top than usual. If I came across that way, I apologize. I tried to keep it factual and not just about me.

dmp

Is it BBQ season yet?

bigabyte said:

Is it BBQ season yet?

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BBQ is always in season. It just depends on how much of a zealot one is.

bmonkman said:

This has nothing to do with what an organization with an all volunteer BOD can or cannot be to everyone. In fact, I think that suggestion is extremely wide of the mark. It has to do with, in my opinion (and perhaps the OP can correct me if I am wrong), a member who feels his expectations were not met and that he wants to be heard. I really do think it boils down to wanting to be heard.

I have always felt that when an organization stops listening to everyone then that is an organization with issues. There really is no reason in my opinion that the orignal OP's issues/concerns could not be addressed. It comes down to resources, priorities and motivation. If the will of the BOD is that something be done about the issues raised here then something will be done. If the BOD feel the backyard hobbyist's interests aren't important to the goals of the organization then nothing will happen.

Now I do have a question because I don't understand what you meant when you said "I also believe while I'm at it that people think that they would pay the same per contest if there was no membership revenue are sort of missing a point." Are you suggesting that KCBS sanctioned events cost the same when it comes to entry fees?

Brian

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Brian to the people who say that $12 dollar of their entry fee goes to KCBS so they are paying their way Im just saying that the fee would be higher if there were no members.

I have never said that the op didnt have a point...here is someone who posted in the comp section tha he was going to compete...joined kcbs and then changed his mind and wished there were more for the general bbqer.

From there it got ugly....

Things can be improved and you have the president respond twice here...I think that is pretty impressive.

dmprantz said:

Everything I mentioned is public information, and Sterling has claimed in interviews to be quite happy with where he is as a result. I can only hope to be as satisfied with my situation in 15 years as he is now. My intent was not to get "personal" and dive into private information, but to ask if the similarities between situations might not deserve a closer inspection.

dmp

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This is where I was coming from, Dan. Ernie Ball is a corporation that Sterling happens to be the CEO of. You have a beef or objection to something that Sterling may have said. No need to drag Ernie Ball the corporation into it. I for one respect what they as a corporation has done to help others. And i also have a huge amount of respect for what Sterling has done for that matter. But at some point there has to be a separation. To dig up something that happened with the corporation over 10 years ago, doesnt really pertain to anything (at least on my opinion) with his remark.

Just some observations

Big Poppa said:

Brian to the people who say that $12 dollar of their entry fee goes to KCBS so they are paying their way Im just saying that the fee would be higher if there were no members.

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Thanks for the clarification. I get it now.

Big Poppa said:

I have never said that the op didnt have a point...here is someone who posted in the comp section tha he was going to compete...joined kcbs and then changed his mind and wished there were more for the general bbqer.

From there it got ugly....

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It did indeed. The online equivalent to a drive by shooting. My intent wasn't to suggest YOU were saying that. Though I know I did infer that and I shouldn't have. It just irks me to no end how people can throw all kinds of stuff out there without having any consideration of what the intent of the OP was/is. Replying to your message was a handy platform for me to say that. I'm just a dumba$$ at times. My lovely wife would be happy to confirm that.:eusa_clap

Big Poppa said:

Things can be improved and you have the president respond twice here...I think that is pretty impressive.

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It is impressive. But as a man much smarter then me would love to say - that and better will do.

Brian

Scottie said:

This is where I was coming from, Dan.....

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Maybe we should take this off line to discuss further, but Sterling himself has given personal interviews on the topic. Were they given by him as CEO or COB or some such? Maybe, but I was referring to quotes he made personally. He also spoke personally at a Linux convention some where if I recall, and he is known with in the FOSS community as proponent such. Perhaps I see it differently and you are referring to the fact that he is "BPS" here and not "EB/MM." If I felt that this was something that was super secret, I never would have brought it up, but all it takes is Google to find out this information including the direct quotes.

And...where was the support when he brought up my suspension in the first place? Did it really affect the discussion for any one to say "What does it matter, we all know you've been suspended." I'm not trying to say I was fighting fire with fire or anything, but it feels a little bit one sided at this point, and as has been pointed out, my POV on this topic did not change as a result of the suspension (It may have solidified).

dmp

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I believe competitions support the backyarder. I do maybe 6 comps a year and who are the throngs walking around, having a good time admiring smokers and asking questions? I would venture to say a lot of them are backyard cooks having a great time and picking up cooking tips. Just my dos centavos...