Assistance required! Why are our briskets/ribs so small!?

Hi Folks,

I have a small favour to ask... as you may or may not know, barbecuing (in the low and slow sense) is almost completely unheard of here in OZ land (Australia). As such, many of the cuts you guys use either have completely different names or those cuts are used for other products (e.g. pet mince) or are simply not available as different parts of the cut are attached to other cuts (e.g. part of the brisket may be used in rib roasts, part may be used in flank steak etc), thus proving extremely difficult to find even after 3 years of searching.

I am most concerned with brisket and pork ribs.

Let me say firstly that I have found a source for full size briskets (15-20lb), BUT they are wholesale, export grade wagyu and cost US$20/kg = US$10 / lb, so a 20lb packer costs me USS200 !

The closest non-export non-wagyu I have found is a whole packer kosher brisket, but unfortunately these weigh about 3kg TOTAL (6lb) and is even more expensive - US$20/lb ! So for a measly 6lb, I am paying $120. OBviously I go with the wagyus when I simply have to have brisket as the kosher ones are too small and prohibitively expensive.

I have found packers elsewhere, but they are TINY, most around the 2kg (5lb) mark.

As for pork, our spare ribs are tiny (think of the imported danish ribs that give you guys nightmares) and we don't break them into the different types either (e.g. baby back and spare ribs) because they are so small - 450g (1lb) if we are LUCKY for a "large" rack.

So from what I can tell, we must be slaughtering our animals at a much younger age or not raising them to be as heavy or using different breeds.

So here is my small favour that I am asking... so that I Can work more closely with some butchers and have more information to give them, could I please ask the following?

The next time you are purchasing a big (15-20lb) whole packer brisket, please try and find out:
1.) The approximate size of the cows that the briskets come off - i.e. the steers weight
2.) The approximate age of the cows that the briskets come off

Also, the next time you are purchasing some pork ribs (be they baby backs or spare ribs), could you please ask:
1.) The approximate size of the pigs that the briskets come off - i.e. the steers weight
2.) The approximate age of the pigs that the briskets come off
3.) If they are male or female

If as many people could find out (so I can get a good average from different areas/suppliers), I would REALLY appreciate it.

Thanks!

Inferno...I might be able to help a little bit as I have been in the veterinary pharmaceutical industry for 25 years, and have closely observed beef and pork production all over the world, including OZ & the US. You are getting some good info from Mranum below about US production...~18 months slaughter ages for heifers and steers; 1200 leaning toward 1400 pounds live weight at slaughter; and while every animal will yield some ground beef, older animals (e.g. culled dairy cows) are almost entirely dedicated to ground beef.

The biggest difference between US & OZ beef production is that the vast majority of all beef cattle in the US get at least 60 days up to 180 days of "finish" on high energy feed (e.g. corn) immediately prior to slaughter. This does 2 things...a) encourages what is called interstitial marbling (improved tenderness of the cut due to the deposit of fat within the muscle) and b) more rapid weight gain so the animal is slaughtered younger & therefore more tender. OZ, while having its relative fair share of feedlots and fed cattle, still produces most of its cattle "extensively" on pasture with little or no higher energy diet finishing just prior to slaughter. The age at slaughter is significantly older (maybe 2x or more) with less interstitial marbling. The net result of pure pasture raised cattle is that the meat is less tender. Still the brisket - regardless of pasture or grain-fed production - is an inherently less-tender cut to begin with...hence the "low & slow" choice of smoking the cut to make it tender.

My scientific-wild-ass-guess (SWAG) is that since the Aussies by your own account are grillers and not smokers, the slaughter plants are making ground beef out of the briskets since there is less demand for a less tender cut for smoking? On the other hand, having lived and managed a vet business in Japan, I found it interesting that the briskets you can find are from the wagyu breed. As you might know, the wagyu breed is the small black beef animal that Kobe beef comes from...the Japanese have moved a significant production of Kobe beef off-shore, primarily to OZ, in order to reduce costs. This also helps to explain why the brisket you are finding is wagyu as it is too good to grind into burgers (although I'd like to try it...yummm) and the Japanese market (by and large) is not interested in burgers or brisket...and then there's the freight from OZ for a lower value cut. While US$10/pound is a high, it certainly is Prime++ brisket.

Okay - TMI (too much information, and I apologize for this long post) but to finish...pork: the OZ pork industry is relatively very small, based around the Bendigo area, but resembles modern global production otherwise. Mranum is again right about the ~275# slaughter weight in the US, and even if OZ porkers are being slaughtered a little lighter (I don't know), it's likely not any lighter than 100 kilos (220+ lbs), and wouldn't significantly effect rib size. My SWAG here is that your pork ribs are going into another bigger cut...but then, you should be able to see that at your grocery store? I'd just ask your local butcher; he'll know. (As to your other questions, slaughter age of pigs in the US is roughly 6 months and both castrated males and females go in large numbers to market.)

Hope this helps...and let me know how those intriguing Wagyu Brisket Burgers come out...of course at $10/lb, they better be real good...reminds me of my search for a great burger in Tokyo!

Kind regards...Smokin' Teddy T

holy god

holy god that is a lot of money for brisket. do you have anybody you know in the states where they could pack it with dry ice froze and send it to you for less money

Thanks Niel - much appreciated!

Thanks for the information mranum!

Smokin' Teddy T: Wow, thank you for the detailed reply, no need to apologise and I am of the opinion that one can never have enough information . I spoke to a butcher today (a couple in fact), and I can only shake my head...

They said that the carcasses they are getting are around 180kg (400lb), and he showed me the brisket he had cut from it for me... it was a pathetic mini version of the usual US packer I see you guys cooking. I showed him some photos of the 15 pounders that you guys regularly smoke and he said if I wanted something that big, it would have to come off a 400kg (880 lb carcass) animal, and I should "go out west to a crappy butcher" to find that "Crappy quality" meat as the larger cows are "much worse quality" (the western suburbs in my state/country are considered "less affluent", hence the cheap shots at their meat quality from the butcher).

txschutte: Clod, this is a whole shoulder correct? I will have to look into one of those as they are definitely not widely available (once again, broken down). I do see whole rumps very often... might have to try smoking one of them and see how they come out... and I can get them in a large size too - around 5-6kg (11-13lb).

gotwood: Whilst I do agree it is a good price, it means $200 for a single brisket.

Infernooo...good to hear from you this morning. Ah hah...based on your additional information, the picture becomes clearer, mate. If I remember correctly from my university meat science class, a beef animal will yield out a dressed carcass of about 62% of the live weight. So...a 400 lb carcass = about a 650 lb. live weight = probably a yearling calf...young; raised 6 months on momma's milk and 6 months on pasture, and therefore more tender. Now the 880 lb. carcass = comes from a more typical 1400 lb. live animal...but if this animal is entirely raised on pasture, then I can understand the butcher's "crappy" comment relative to the more premium cuts. Generally for an animal to get to 1400 lbs. on pasture alone, well, he's likely old enough to collect social security. However - since you are smoking low & slow, my guess is that a correctly prepared brisket, even using this raw material, should "eat" pretty well.

Your other option while still staying with the brisket cut, is to ask your butcher to find you a brisket from a Aussie grain-finished beef animal...they exist...and while the steaks may be going to restaurants in Sydney, those briskets still need to go somewhere.

Lastly - for pork ribs...while half a beef animal is a lot of meat to put away for most folks at one time (share it with other like minded folks?) - half a pig is a little easier to handle. txschutte's suggestion to buy half a hog is one to consider...just make sure if it is a male that it was castrated at birth to avoid boar taint.

Good luck!

smokin teddy: a yearling calf sounds about right... however I believe that most of the beef is still grain fed yet it seems that for some reason these smaller carcasses are the norm.

The pork is a good idea... don't know if it would fit in my freezer though lol!