BBQ Sauce, Commercial or make your own?

watertowerbbq said:

Do you think McDonalds makes their OWN ketchup, mustard, bacon, soft drinks, etc? Think again.

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Nope & if you want to be the McDonalds of BBQ - more power to you.

Not saying you have to be Farm to Table on this or grow your own smoker wood, but really - making sauce & rub is not exactly difficult. Plus you gain the benefit of selling your original rub & sauce as an added revenue stream. Finally - what happens if the commercial sauce you're using changes formula or is discontinued?

If you want to be a professional cook - be a professional & actually cook. That means making your own sauce & rub - not dumping it out of a can. All the ingredients for a great sauce or rub can be found at any Sam's Club, Costco or BJs. Just do it - your customers WILL appreciate it.

Actually, McDonalds does make many of their own sauces. Particularly their own mustard and bbq sauces, which, I actually got to participate as an observer of someone running a taste test of McDonalds BBQ sauce with several other sauces and McDonalds did quite well.

On a different but on topic tack, there is nothing inherently wrong with taking a commercial sauce and modifying it. There is a risk that the formula might change, which is certainly a risk that can occur. Although, how many of us use Worcestershire sauce, or make our own ketchup that we base sauces upon. In many other types of restaurants, there are basic sauces that are often used as a basis. A good example is Lee Kum Kee, which at one time, before it became a staple of the Asian food aisle in supermarkets everywhere, owned nearly 90% of the bulk sauce business in Chinese restaurants in the U.S. It is not so unusual to use premade sauces as we all might suppose.

All this being said, I would make my own sauces, as I prefer my flavor profile and the ingredients I use.

chachahut said:

Nope & if you want to be the McDonalds of BBQ - more power to you.

Not saying you have to be Farm to Table on this or grow your own smoker wood, but really - making sauce & rub is not exactly difficult. Plus you gain the benefit of selling your original rub & sauce as an added revenue stream. Finally - what happens if the commercial sauce you're using changes formula or is discontinued?

If you want to be a professional cook - be a professional & actually cook. That means making your own sauce & rub - not dumping it out of a can. All the ingredients for a great sauce or rub can be found at any Sam's Club, Costco or BJs. Just do it - your customers WILL appreciate it.

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What's wrong with being the McDonalds of BBQ? They are a successful chain of fast food restaurants. Isn't the idea of being in the restaurant business to make money? If you buy raw meat, prepare it, cook it and sell it for a profit, regardless of the rub or sauce you use, you are a professional cook.

Now your points about the what if it becomes no longer available are valid and you have a couple of option. You can make your own or you can try and purchase the recipe from the person who came up with the original recipe. I've found that making my homeade rub costs me about 1/2 of what a commercially available rub costs. However, if I was a 1 person operation starting a catering truck, I may not have the time to devote to making rubs and sauces. Before you can start selling sauces to the public, you are going to have to get the packaging approved by the appropriate governmental department, have the food nutrition information determined, etc. The list goes on and on. That's a lot of extra money and time for someone starting out.

However, the notion that you are not a professional cook if you use a commercial sauce or rub is silly at best and condascending at worst. You can agree to disagree if you want.

watertowerbbq said:

However, the notion that you are not a professional cook if you use a commercial sauce or rub is silly at best and condascending at worst. You can agree to disagree if you want.

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I stand corrected & you are right - if you get paid to cook you are technically a professional.

What I meant to say was no self respecting BBQ professional - selling Q to the public for a living - would use a commercial sauce or rub.

extend this a bit and one could say easily say no self respecting BBQ professional would cook meat in a machine shop fabricated, insulated cooker.

it should be in a pit dug out of the dirt with the meat on a stick.

the sauce is play, whether commercial or not...cooking the meat properly is the challenge.

just curious, what liquids go into your sauces? hope it aint heinz or lee and perrins.

while i can appreciate your POV on some level, it really is a kinda ridiculous blanket judgement.

boogiesnap said:

...the sauce is play, whether commercial or not...cooking the meat properly is the challenge. ...

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

I understand why people labor and tweak and sweat over developing sauces. To many folks, it isn't 'Q without a sauce. I also understand that it can be a nice profit center. I know that some people immediately drown that plate of 'Q with it before they even taste what was just served to them.

Typically, I like sauce on my plate to dip my onion rings or french fries in. More often than not though, if I start slathering sauce on the meat on my plate, it's to cover the flavor of a crappy rub or a poorly cooked piece of meat.

Chris

boogiesnap said:

extend this a bit and one could say easily say no self respecting BBQ professional would cook meat in a machine shop fabricated, insulated cooker.

it should be in a pit dug out of the dirt with the meat on a stick.

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boogiesnap said:

the sauce is play, whether commercial or not...cooking the meat properly is the challenge.

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True for those of us here - not true for the average BBQ customer.

boogiesnap said:

just curious, what liquids go into your sauces? hope it aint heinz or lee and perrins.

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I'm guessing you missed the post above where I said:
"All the ingredients for a great sauce or rub can be found at any Sam's Club, Costco or BJs. Just do it - your customers WILL appreciate it."

I have never said ANYWHERE in this thread one needs to make all the ingredients that go into a sauce or rub. Hell - I never said anything against "doctoring" a commercial sauce (though I do think it is rather lazy & kind of cheating). What I AM saying is - if you are going to be serious about making a living selling Q, you need to be serious about ALL aspects of your flavor profile. That means the cook, the smoke AND the sauce & rub. Do you honestly believe ANY of the legends often revered (and paid big bucks for classes) here used commercial sauces & rubs when they started? Do you think ANY of the legendary joints past & present did?

Just saying - if you don't think you have the time or energy or skill or whatever to make one sauce & one rub AND you're thinking of making BBQ vending a profession - you REALLY need to re-think that business plan.

BTW - to answer the "what liquids go into your sauces" - store bought stuff right now though I am working with a local producer to make our own ketchup, worcestershire & cider vinegar. We've started making our own mustard. Our apple cider is source from a local orchard. We also have a 2 acre farm (Cha Cha Hut Acres) where we are featuring the organically grown potatoes in our potato salad this week. (I dug them up on my "day off" on Wednesday.) When the watermelons come in we'll be making a salad, sauce & rind pickles from those. Hoping the tomatillos come up well for a later summer salsa. Going over to a local baker tomorrow to continue work on our own signature bread recipe for our sandwich rolls. Hope that helps you understand where I am coming when it comes to producing BBQ for the public.

Oh yes - & the Hut is just my wife & I creating all of the menu items fresh daily (http://chachahut.com/menu)

To me it is about trying to live up to the legend of Q in this country - especially given the latest interest via TV shows & websites. Dumping sauce from a can is in no way shape or form legendary.

Gotta jet & make the house sauce (3 gallons = 15 minutes dumping ingredients into a pot; 3 hours on simmer) & North Carolina Vinegar Sauce (1 gallon = 5 minutes) plus running the line until 8pm tonight.

Have a lovely day...

I think Frank is correct that if you really want to do a singular job serving the best food that you possibly can, you really do need to control as much of the end product as you can. I disagree with him that you can't be a serious professional cook without doing that. In the end, if you are making money and have customers that enjoy the food you are serving, you are doing something right. There are some places where economy of scale and bulk production will put you in the best place for making money.

I disagree with the idea of minimizing the role of sauce, having seen a lot of BBQ places open and close, long term survival is a funtion of meat and sauce. The sauce has to be good enough that people want to eat it. For most, and by that, I mean probably approaching 75% or more folks, BBQ is about the sauce and the sauce alone. Overcooked meat and undercooked brisket served with lots of sauce. This is why many places serve 3, 4 or more sauces.

Frank I admire your commitment to your craft and business, but, I think there is a lot of room below that level of commitment for a BBQ place to make it. There are many restaurants that are using Cattleman's and other commercial service sauces as their house BBQ sauce.

I feel like the original question is sort of being lost here. I'm am not a professional but love BBQ. So this is more from the point of view of someone who would be your customer who knows how to make his own but likes to find good Q.

I think if you make your own it gives you some increased level of credibility from the public. This doesn't mean you need to make six sauces. In fact you might just want to try to make what you would make for your own tastes and call that your signature sauce.

The other thing I would suggest (speaking as a consumer). I love to try new sauces. I get excited when I find one my local stores carrying a new product. You could also consider using a sauce that you can not get locally. For example where I live Blues Hog just doesn't exist. If I came up to your stand and you had sauce that I had heard about but couldn't get locally I might try your Q just to get a taste of the sauce (but maybe I'm strange). And finally some people don't want to put any sauce on that they don't already know what it is. So, if this is at all possible for you what I would suggest is to try to have one or two sauces that you make yourself (maybe your mustard base sauce and one other), one sauce that you bring in from another part of the country (say Big Butz for example) and one very basic sauce that people who are not very adventurous would use.

Take all that for what its worth (albeit maybe not that much). Overall good luck with your business and I hope I get to try it someday.

chachahut said:

Not meaning to start anything here, but if you're not making the rub, not making the sauce, buying the meat from a store (not raising & butchering it) & not growing the trees for the smoke wood - what exactly ARE you doing? Throwing some meat in the smoker for a few hours?

Seems to me if you want to sell BBQ to the masses it should actually be all YOURS.

To answer the questions, I make 6 stock house sauces & 2 rotating Sauce of the Moments plus 3 different rubs & have not used any sauce or rub I have not made myself for over 6 years.

Then again, I make a nice bit of change selling my sauces & rubs at the Hut.

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frank, i can't say how much i appreciate, admire, and look up to your approach to BBQ, food, and serving to the public.

BUT, you did kind of allude to your opinion being it all must come from scratch or you're not really cooking.

basically, i just disagree.

i got more thoughts, but gotta go. will post again later.

chachahut said:

Not meaning to start anything here, but if you're not making the rub, not making the sauce, buying the meat from a store (not raising & butchering it) & not growing the trees for the smoke wood - what exactly ARE you doing? Throwing some meat in the smoker for a few hours?

Seems to me if you want to sell BBQ to the masses it should actually be all YOURS.

To answer the questions, I make 6 stock house sauces & 2 rotating Sauce of the Moments plus 3 different rubs & have not used any sauce or rub I have not made myself for over 6 years.

Then again, I make a nice bit of change selling my sauces & rubs at the Hut.

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Brother, I really thought you were trying to be funny here. I can make my own sauce and feel good about it, but I sure ain't going to feel like I'm not a "professional" because I don't raise my own pigs and cows. If you're not making every single ingredient in your restaurant, you're kinda/sorta being a hypocrite, aren't you? Just sayin'...

watertowerbbq said:

What's wrong with being the McDonalds of BBQ? They are a successful chain of fast food restaurants. Isn't the idea of being in the restaurant business to make money?

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Actually, I know many restaurant owners would be in oppositional disagreement with you.

Personally I laughed at the first mention of McDonald's, and thought you were joking. Although McDonald's very well may be a successful "business" I am one who do not actually use the word "restaurant" when I think of them. FAST FOOD yes... a serious establishment of an eatery? Definitely not. Do I think that serious professional chefs would consider McD's a business model or goal to strive for? Hardly. McDonald's is a cartoon shell of what a restaurant should be, and in many ways is a philosophical dilemma of American culture. Do I eat at McDonald's? Yes, at times I do. Do I consider it a "restaurant" to strive to imitate besides perhaps financial gain? Never. Does my GF consider it a special date night if we grab something from there? :shock::tape: Would I even strive to make a meal that would taste like one of theirs? Not on my worse day.

I know I am not alone on these thoughts, and many restaurant owners that I have known personally would be insulted if you compared them to McDonald's. Making money they would agree is nice, but it would not be "the reason" for their business. They say they are in the restaurant business because it is a passion that needs to be fulfilled.

wearcd said:

Brother, I really thought you were trying to be funny here. I can make my own sauce and feel good about it, but I sure ain't going to feel like I'm not a "professional" because I don't raise my own pigs and cows. If you're not making every single ingredient in your restaurant, you're kinda/sorta being a hypocrite, aren't you? Just sayin'...

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I suggest reading an entire thread before making a reply.

Just sayin'

Returning the original question, I have to say stick with your Carolina sauce & call it yours. If you're going to use store bought sauces - DEFINITELY leave them in the original bottle. I used to go to a Cajun joint where they had their house hot sauce but the walls were lined with 100s of other sauces. Found some great ones there.

My ego is a bit too big to deal with seeing some one in my joint using some crappy store bought sauce instead of my home made ones. That said - I have been thinking of bringing in a few from the recent Saveur BBQ issue's list of best sauces. They are regional high quality sauces not found around my area.

My philosophy is: Give your customers something extraordinary & they will appreciate it & become loyal fans.

Give your customers the same old LCD commercial crap & you'll make guys like me rich.

I'm not in "business" like many of you but I'm of the thinking when I cook bbq for people who come to my house I want to serve them something they can't get anywhere else except from me. And I would think if I were in business for myself I'd have that same mindset.

Uniqueness in what you offer is a major part of the component of return business. And the more "uniqueness" (diclaimer: GOOD UNIQUENESS) you have in your business then the more return business you're likely to have. Is there anything *wrong* with using a commercially sold sauce that comes from Wal-Mart? Nope. But it will not contribute to the component of return business. Because as someone has said above. People, with regards to the sauce, will potentially say "This sauce taste just like ______ I get at Wal-Mart." And and you really don't want that response to many elements of your business.

I make my own sauce also. Pain in the are for big batches though. Looking for a bottler now.

I love all aspects of BBQ; to me, when I serve up my Q, which is rubbed with my rub, smoked with wood I harvested, and served with a sauce or two (on the side) of my own creation... there's no better feeling. I love to see the plates come back looking like they've been licked clean.

I got swamped one day a few years ago with all kinds of non-cooking stuff (business), that I didn't have time to do a proper (in my mind) sauce. I grabbed a jug of Head Country (which is pretty damned good sauce) and served that instead. People commented that my sauce wasn't quite what they have come to expect.

Yes, you can use commercial sauces, nothing wrong with that at all. It's up to each individual cook what they want to do. Me? I enjoy the process of making the sauce. Inventing a new one is even more fun!

chachahut said:

I suggest reading an entire thread before making a reply.

Just sayin'

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I did read the entire thread. You contradict yourself several times. You say you didn't say things in replies to other people, when actually you did. I take little of what you said seriously, because most of it is so ridiculous. I will say I like the concept of your restaurant, as your little speech did catch my attention enough to go to your website. Other than that, you come off as trying to be "holier than though;" as I said, a hypocrite. Do you treat your customers with the same level of condescension you display on here?
And the "just sayin" part was really cute, too.

wearcd said:

I did read the entire thread. You contradict yourself several times. You say you didn't say things in replies to other people, when actually you did. I take little of what you said seriously, because most of it is so ridiculous. I will say I like the concept of your restaurant, as your little speech did catch my attention enough to go to your website. Other than that, you come off as trying to be "holier than though;" as I said, a hypocrite. Do you treat your customers with the same level of condescension you display on here?
And the "just sayin" part was really cute, too.

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:chillpill: :chillpill: :chillpill: :chillpill:



:shock:

Smiter Q said:

:chillpill: :chillpill: :chillpill: :chillpill:



:shock:

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Yeah, you're right, Smiter. I should try to not let people like that get under my skin. My apologies to the Bretheren.