Judge classes suspended?

There are about 40+ CBJ classes currently scheduled for 2015. This is no NEW classes in the USA.

Candy Sue said:

There are about 40+ CBJ classes currently scheduled for 2015. This is no NEW classes in the USA.

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I think there is some confusion on this. The Iowa BBQ Society is having a CBJ class the end of this month. I was on the IABBQ Society BOD for the past 2 years but my term expired in January. The reason i say that is because I got a call this morning from someone that is signed up for the class wanting to know if it is still happening because what they had read on the KCBS quick notes. I wasnt sure so I placed a couple of calls, to which one response was "i dont know what is going on but I will call KCBS later today".

I appreciate your response Candy but counting on this thread there is some people that wasnt sure what is going with scheduled classes.

I'm (hopefully) attending a class on the 28th of this month.

I hope this isn't true as they've already cashed my check!

QN said:

So, no new classes will be scheduled going forward, but classes already scheduled will take place?
I think it could have been better stated

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Agreed. The wording could have been stated more clearly.

Interesting thing to note: KCBS now considers Canada to be a part of International BBQ events. Will this change the thinking for the Jack and American Royal? Will the cooks from the various states of Canada be assigned mentors and given special consideration when competing? Will they become automatics like all of the internationals?

If you look at the statement, it says "Does not apply to classes already scheduled.

Derussi said:

If you look at the statement, it says "Does not apply to classes already scheduled.

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That was added. It wasnt on the notes posted earlier this morning. I am glad they added it to help avoid confusion.

All of the classes that are listed in the BullSheet or on the KCBS website are good to go, but no NEW classes will be scheduled until the CBJ Committee does a complete review of things. Basically, if you see it listed on the KCBS website then it's a go.

Great move by the new BOD. Very encouraging.

Fat Freddy said:

I think there is some confusion on this. The Iowa BBQ Society is having a CBJ class the end of this month. I was on the IABBQ Society BOD for the past 2 years but my term expired in January. The reason i say that is because I got a call this morning from someone that is signed up for the class wanting to know if it is still happening because what they had read on the KCBS quick notes. I wasnt sure so I placed a couple of calls, to which one response was "i dont know what is going on but I will call KCBS later today".

I appreciate your response Candy but counting on this thread there is some people that wasnt sure what is going with scheduled classes.

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This class in Iowa is the perfect example of the problem. There is a class every year (I've helped out at the last 4) that seat somewhere around 60 perspective new judges. Granted a portion of these students are cooks trying to better their chances at winning by understanding what goes on in the tent. That still leaves the vast majority of the class looking for a contest to judge. While Iowa has some of the best cook teams in the nation, we really don't have number of local contests to support 40ish new judges every year.
I think looking at need VS greed is a great idea ( I know greed isn't the perfect word, but it rhymed).
Ed

On the flip side of this issue- last year I had 100 judges apply for our contest.

Had an unprecedented 30 judges cancel. And we had 67 teams - our highest team count.
I wound up using everybody on the list plus did some last minute scrambling.

Then the 3 no shows meant that some table captains did double duty, TC and judge.
So we got everything covered.

Our cbj class in MN was about a month before our event - and at that time I thought I had more judges than I would ever need for the year.

You just don't know.

Some judges quit for one reason or another. Some judges go on to be cook teams - Yeah !! And a good percentage of people at the classes are cooks who want
to learn about the judging process - wonderful idea.

And then some judges bloom and blossom into dedicated judges with a long judging career.

We need all of those.

I like the move. Some of these CBJ classes have become a fundraising forum for some of these organizers of the classes. While it is great they can make a little money, at whose expense? I truly believe that a top to bottom scrubbing of the program needs to take place. We need to get everyone on the same page. BBQ contests are not the place for folks to be playing with our massive investments that we have made. I have decided to step back a bit (from cooking) this year because of it. Things need to be figured out and it should be A1 on everyone's agenda. At least my opinion.

carlyle said:

On the flip side of this issue- last year I had 100 judges apply for our contest.

Had an unprecedented 30 judges cancel. And we had 67 teams - our highest team count.
I wound up using everybody on the list plus did some last minute scrambling.

Then the 3 no shows meant that some table captains did double duty, TC and judge.
So we got everything covered.

Our cbj class in MN was about a month before our event - and at that time I thought I had more judges than I would ever need for the year.

You just don't know.

Some judges quit for one reason or another. Some judges go on to be cook teams - Yeah !! And a good percentage of people at the classes are cooks who want
to learn about the judging process - wonderful idea.

And then some judges bloom and blossom into dedicated judges with a long judging career.

We need all of those.

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In my opinion, having 30 judges cancel on you is not indicative of needing more people to be certified as judges, but of needing more of those that are already certified to honor their commitment to come judge your contest.

I wanted to try to pick my words carefully but I am sure i will still misstate something. First i too really like the idea of the suspension of the CBJ classes but have a few thoughts and truthfully I dont know if it will do much good regardless. I dont want to say there is a need for more, there absolutely is NOT, but maybe more true in-depth(for lack of a better word).

Ed, I am not taking anything personal but I think the need vs. greed is a bit tough a statement. Just in terms of the IBS, it wasnt a big money maker and has been done for a bit. It was more for a betterment of BBQ than anything. Now i am not saying it was the right thing i just wanted that out there. Saying that though each of the last 3 or 4 years there has been other people putting on KCBS CBJ classes in Iowa. 3 classes a couple of years ago. But strictly using last year or year before i dont remember there was an issue and frankly some hard feelings by some because an individual scheduled a CBJ class a couple weeks after the IBS one and after the IBS scheduled theirs(Ed, i think you know who I am talking about) I had no problem with his being scheduled but in hindsight I now understand.

Again I think the suspension is a good idea and i have no idea what the KCBS BOD plans are or how they are thinking(thank goodness) but from what I read it is just suspended until the cbj committee approves to go forward. So in theory this might only be suspended a short time? I mean if all the 2015 classes are still going, Will there really be no classes in 2016? To me just thinking out loud what the real problem is, is so many different scoring basis to use. My hope would be that the CBJ committee comes up with a more "standardized" scoring basis. And then basically everyone would need to 'renew" their certification at these classes that are happening. FOR FREE but at each class a certain number of seats set aside for "renewals". We have to renew our drivers license, fishing license, hunting license, etc.. So why should this be any different?

I am not so much against new cbj's nor do i think we should go overboard with existing CBJ's. Yes it is a way for KCBS to make money and yes us cooks spend waaaaay to much money on this to question the judging. And there is a definite over saturation of judges in some areas, but us cooks travel. Why cant the judges travel(and I know many do). I dont think we should punish someone before they have done something wrong. Yes the situation needs re thought out, and obviously it is. And if a pause is what is needed to reset. GREAT. I guess ultimately what I am trying to say is IMO much like the way contests are being scheduled this kinda comes back to too many contest allowed in same areas. i think to many classes allowed in the same general areas.

The big part of my problem, and let me say i could and most likely am way off, is like for the Royal. There will be a class for judges and lots of new ones. But the new judges,as things are currently listed for 2016, will only be in KC area not other areas or frankly not enough judges. So if we suspend the cbj class too long all the new judges in one area and no new life blood in other areas.

I am sorry i am as opinionated as i am on this subject, but if it wasnt for a KCBS CBJ class at an UNsanctioned contest, I wouldnt have known much about KCBS. The idea of being a bbq judge thrilled me and my wife. And after judging a few the two of us became cooks, caterers, vendors, served on charitable BBQ Boards....All because of my CBJ class back in 2010...I am proud to be a CBJ and I am thankful for what the CBJ class has given me in terms of knowledge and future...




BUT......I do understand there needs to be some revision to the program :wink:

Smoke'n Ice said:

Interesting thing to note: KCBS now considers Canada to be a part of International BBQ events. Will this change the thinking for the Jack and American Royal? Will the cooks from the various states of Canada be assigned mentors and given special consideration when competing? Will they become automatics like all of the internationals?

Click to expand...

Canada already has its own rules when it comes to the Jack and Royal that were implemented last year. I think KCBS is catching up with the them.

I don't believe ceasing the recruitment of new CBJs is healthy for KCBS. Judges represent most of the organization's membership, so it doesn't take a genius to see that cutting off the supply of new CBJs is slow suicide for KCBS.

I do think that judges should be required to recertify every few years in order to keep their CBJ status, and that the content of these re-cert classes should be different than the base class. After three years of judging, everyone should be well aware of what makes a DQ and how the scoring system works.

Re-cert classes should focus on specific problem areas and calibration of the judge pool. For example, you could give each person samples to score, and then collect cards and do a quick analysis of each judge's scores compared to the class as a whole, and judge's who show a trend for scoring above or below the pack would be asked to explain their scores.

You could also market these re-cert classes as opportunities for teams to calibrate their own recipes by setting it up as a test cook with direct judge feedback. Cooks would not be charged to participate but would provide their own supplies. Possibly there might be a small stipend (say $50) to participating teams to offset meat costs, financed by the collected class fee.

I firmly believe a program like this that encourages communication between cooks and judges would make everything better in the long run.

My read on the cessation follows another avenue. Besides placing a temporary limit, it looks to be an attempt to also bring the teaching back into uniformity. Based on posts in other threads, I sincerely hope KCBS' efforts will help improve the consistency amongst the judging population.

Being a pessimist, I would not expect it to last very long (no one on the BOD would willingly kill the fatted cow), produce results of consistency (makes no sense to lose money by retraining current judges at no charge), have any impact on cooks number one complaint, consistency. We will probably see a new CD that must be played (got one now that doesn't work?) that will assuage shallow thinkers (such as the Tin Man) and in general follow the normal BOD follow thru (see vote of 2011 regarding regional representation that was ignored).

Most will understand why I chose not to renew my 12 year family membership and cut down drastically on my competing. It's really not worth it any more. I refuse to fund the international effort to grow our sport when we can't even do something simple in the US, DEVELOPE a consistent judging program !!!!!