Five failed butts in 24 hours

Will work for bbq said:

I'm going to disagree with the notion that too much tech is what ruined the cook. The placement of the pit probe was the problem, the Guru did what it was supposed to do. If another therm was used in the same location and the temp controlled manually the end result would have been the same because the pit prob was located in a hot spot. The important thing is that the problem was identified and lesson learned, sucks that it was a costly lesson. I like to clip my pit probe right to the WSM's dome thermometer to give me a true dome temp.

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While what you say is correct with the probe placement tech still contributed to the bad cook.

Going manual you just can't really screw up at all. If your vents are in a certain range you know your temp will be in a certain range. If your analog therm shows a temp you know it's in that general area (if you have a good one).

Not that tech is a terrible thing it does contribute to more screwed up cooks and there's no spinning it any other way. Bad probe placements, power failures, software failures, ATC's getting wet or failing for whatever reason.

I don't even rely on my Maverick much anymore.

bbqgeekess said:

Do you have any photos of your pork butt done at 225? I've never cooked it that low and don't think I've ever seen a photo of one cooked that low of temp. I am curious what the bark looks like. After barbecuing for only 10 months now, it seems like I get much darker and stronger bark on things the higher the temp.

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From the archives before my brains came in when I was chasing rainbows cooking at Ridiculously Painfully Low 225.

I' m still chasing the rainbow.....

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Fwismoker said:

Not that tech is a terrible thing it does contribute to more screwed up cooks and there's no spinning it any other way. Bad probe placements, power failures, software failures, ATC's getting wet or failing for whatever reason.

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I agree with what you are saying except for the "Bad probe placement" IMO I would consider that human error.
One of my old mentors used to always tell me "pay attention to the details, junk in equals junk out" which I think applies to the probe placement.

Will work for bbq said:

I agree with what you are saying except for the "Bad probe placement" IMO I would consider that human error.
One of my old mentors used to always tell me "pay attention to the details, junk in equals junk out" which I think applies to the probe placement.

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Yea the only reason i added probe placement into it is because it's intertwined with the controller and wouldn't have happened if it wasn't used at all although it's "operator error" :becky:

Oh another problem with probe placement is people put it too close to cold meat. I started clipping Maverick probes and also Guru or IQ probes on the underside of the grate...that way they're completely away from all the meat.

I have no issue with the use of temperature controllers, I just think if you start simple and work with the basics of how to operate any cooker, without any controller, you will have a gut feel for when things are not making sense, and you will know when to make changes.

My feel is that it isn't the technology, it is the reliance of technology, over understanding the cooker that is the issue. Sort of like relying on internal temperature over feel.

When I first came to the forum here and built my UDS I jumped happily on the forum and asked about temp control .... OUCH! I found out real quick what happens. I was going to buy all this fancy stuff and someone ..... ehh hum ... a bunch of folks said to do it the old fashioned way and I finally gave in and listened.

I cooked my first pork butt by doing what was suggested. I lit the UDS, let it settle where it settled, tossed on meat and checked it several hours later. When the bone wiggled, I took it off. Best meat I ever cooked.

I learned my lesson. Do I still want fancy stuff? Yes. Do I need it? Nope. Either way, I hope you got it all figured out and what ever works for you works great!

Take care and happy smoking!

Ray

landarc said:

Sounds like a learning curve, about the only thing I would have done different is start with a smaller amount of meat until I learned how the cooker and controller work. I do agree with the point, that using the controller is not the best way to start

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Offthehook said:

crank up the temp to at least 250, those long cook times dry things out. I would start with 1 or 2 until you get the hang of things. The wsm should pretty much work itself when its dialed in.

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landarc said:

I have no issue with the use of temperature controllers, I just think if you start simple and work with the basics of how to operate any cooker, without any controller, you will have a gut feel for when things are not making sense, and you will know when to make changes.

My feel is that it isn't the technology, it is the reliance of technology, over understanding the cooker that is the issue. Sort of like relying on internal temperature over feel.

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^ +1 I agree.....

Keep it simple with a smaller smoke until you learn your cooker and get comfortable with it. This will help you to be able to judge when things are done whether you are using the BBQ Guru or not...

I have always cooked my pork butts at 245° - 250° for the past 20 years and I have a very moist pulled pork. You could try bumping up your pit to 250°, but only make one change at a time so you know which direction you are headed.

Lastly I would also like to point out that Internal temperature is only a guide. I have had pork butts done at 178° and others done at 200°. Every piece of meat is different. Learn to wiggle the bone starting at 175° until it wiggles like a loose tooth. When it wiggles, pull it and wrap it for a rest of at least 2 hours (I like a 4 hour rest), this is important in redistributing the juices back into the center of the meat. Without a rest the meat will be dry and will loose a lot of flavor because the juices which also contain flavor have drained away as you pull it away or cut it.

Over the winter I started Injecting the pork with OakRidge Game Changer Brine. Many say it doesn't effect the moisture content of the meat, but it has more than a noticeable difference in my final product. The bone now almost always wiggles at 178°, the bark is a reddish mahogany (partially because I smoke with cherry wood) never burned. It pulls in long 3" to 4" light colored strips which are very juicy.

Bottom line is that you have to find the method that works best in your smoker and gives you the desired product you prefer. Don't worry about trying to copy somebody's method because there are a lot of variables from day to day, cooker to cooker, and from different pieces of meat. Learn to test for doneness rather than by temperature.

I also own a BBQ Guru because at my age I treasure my sleep when i can get it. But knowing how my pit cooks before I stared using it was part of my learning curve. Even with the Guru I rely on the hands on method to know when the meat is actually done. The Guru minds and adjusts my pit while I soundly sleep.

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StickyD said:

Great advice from everyone, thanks! I will try my next cook without the Guru, just the Maverick for temps. On Thursday I'll go for it again, maybe start with a chicken, and only one butt at a time from here on out until I dial it in.

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Sticky, don't give up on the CyberQ!! It is a great tool. On the WSM, just make sure the pit probe is near the center of the rack, but not too close to the meat. The WSM is easy to control temps, with or without the water, but the CyberQ makes it even easier. Put a probe in the meat and one on the grate and use the "ramp mode" and it will cool the cooker down to your target temp once the meat reaches the desired temp. Makes it almost impossible to over cook a pork butt.

Good luck with future cooks.

I am quoting myself because I think it was to vague for some or taken out of context..

Bludawg said:

It's always best to learn your pit before ya Blow it!

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Here is the long winded( Pun intended) version;

All that fancy electronic stuff aint worth a hoot if you can't cook successfully on the pit you have it on with out it. Methods of cooking, Wrapping, Pit temps yada, yada, yada, have no bearing on learning your pit, how it reacts to humidity, wind, meat load. You have to crawl before you creep and creep before you walk... Put the toys away until you have the basics down then gradually incorporate them if you think you need to.

Bludawg said:

I am quoting myself because I think it was to vague for some or taken out of context..
Here is the long winded( Pun intended) version;

All that fancy electronic stuff aint worth a hoot if you can't cook successfully on the pit you have it on with out it. Methods of cooking, Wrapping, Pit temps yada, yada, yada, have no bearing on learning your pit, how it reacts to humidity, wind, meat load. You have to crawl before you creep and creep before you walk... Put the toys away until you have the basics down then gradually incorporate them if you think you need to.

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I'll add satisfaction to this. There's a satisfaction to controlling your pit yourself. I run mine from the hottest days of Summer to the coldest days of Winter and everything in between...it's fun learning them.

On the positive side StickyD, it only gets better from here! :thumb:

IME, once properly seasoned the 18.5" WSM will hold temp without the gadgets. Once I get it rolling mine will settle in right at 250-275°, depending on how I set my vents. After that i keep a casual eye on temps with my Maverick, but otherwise it's pretty much set it and forget it.

Maybe I just got lucky with my Weber, but unless I want to chase 225° (which is where I like to smoke ribs), it's simple as can be...

I use minion method with a void in the center and put 15 fully lit pieces and wait for temps to climb. I cook all my butts at 250 and they are always good.

I love tech because i do a lot of overnight cooks and I believe most people do not take the time to read the manual. Make sure your ramp down is programmed correctly or just turn it off. The guru chokes down the fire the closer you get to your target temp. I personally have ramp down turned off.

As others gave said, wsm cooks way better after it is seasoned. Your attempts at butt did help you get a nice layer of flavor on the inside of the pit and you learned a couple of things. I believe that there is no such thing as a failed cook.

Very sorry to here that brother... head up...

Ouch

StickyD said:

How do you get it above 250°? More charcoal? Did a cook yesterday (Minion setup, water pan) with 50 briquets, and half a chimney of lit charcoal on top. Weather was sunny and 65°, and with all vents open I could never get it above 250°. The temp was incredibly stable, 240-250° for five hours, but I wanted to speed things up when I wrapped to 275° but could not get the temp to rise.

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I can easily hit >300° with a chimney full of ashes briquettes on top of a layer of charcoal topped with smoke wood, no water in the pan. Had two of the the three bottom vents closed yesterday with the third open to about 1/3rd running @ 305° when I dumped the second batch of ashes coals over some fresh wood to refresh the smokers.

IME, water is good for the first 4-5 hours (one full fill of the pan) to get a good 250° smoke, after which letting it run closer to 275° is good, and water in the pan makes it harder to get there.

Pocchampion said:

I love tech because i do a lot of overnight cooks

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Just an FYI, but ime with a good WSM you can run it all night without worry or gadgetry. I know I sound like an WSM fanboi here, but really - I can set it at ~250° when I go to bed and in the AM it will be in the 250-275° range. I used to obsess about it but I've come to realize the WSM is as close to a 'hands-off' as you can get without all sorts of add-on gadgets...