No more TOD
- Thread starter rob g
- Start date
Burnt at Both Endz
Babbling Farker
No reason for score sheets then...…..
Slamdunkpro
Babbling Farker
The score based seating program was flawed regardless of the good intentions:
1: You can't average random events: every contest is unique: there aren't enough constant factors to establish a baseline.
2. Organizers hated it.
3. TOD's TOA's didn't decrease
1: You can't average random events: every contest is unique: there aren't enough constant factors to establish a baseline.
2. Organizers hated it.
3. TOD's TOA's didn't decrease
Pappy Q
is Blowin Smoke!
A good move in my opinion.
midwestmindz
Knows what a fatty is.
I didnt mind the program took it out of the reps hands
Slamdunkpro
Babbling Farker
That was it's one plus. Hopefully the random draw will keep that aspect.
I never learned the details of how the new seating procedure, or application, seated judges so I don't have a strong opinion. I haven't taken the time to look at all contests where it was used, and compared that to contests prior to see what if any change occurred.
For KCBS, the biggest issue is that they are currently not at risk of influencing the outcome of events where money is at stake.
I think the scoring data collected over the years has a great deal of value, after competent analysis. I don't think focusing on a scoring average to seat judges is the way to go however.
For KCBS, the biggest issue is that they are currently not at risk of influencing the outcome of events where money is at stake.
I think the scoring data collected over the years has a great deal of value, after competent analysis. I don't think focusing on a scoring average to seat judges is the way to go however.
ModelMaker
Quintessential Chatty Farker
That was my opinion all along, there was no way past judging sessions would predict how I scored in a future event. The only way that ever made sense was if the same 40 cook teams cooked the same contest week after week and it was set up that my table always got the same teams entry. Even then the variables are huge.
And I'm sorry, there will ALWAYS be a TOA and TOD, somebody wins, somebody loses.
ED
Slamdunkpro
Babbling Farker
That's an angle I hadn't really considered - you should run for the Board:caked:
ftfy
Pappy Q
is Blowin Smoke!
IMO...the most vulnerable part of the whole process is the inputting of the judges scoresheets into the computer. Sometimes the Rep does it, sometimes an extra judge does it and sometimes a volunteer from the Organizers does it. As for seating, the only way that is not an attempt to manipulate the scoring is a totally random generated by computer.
DoctorCueNC
Knows what a fatty is.
Random will cause more TOD and TOAs. If you actually see what Mark has posted about the statistical analysis of the program and seating before and after it did help. Wasn’t ever designed to completely remove just to diminish. Mark also noted it wasn’t perfect but just better. BOD voted against wishes of Rep committee supposedly as well.
GrillBillie_D
Full Fledged Farker
Where can we see any of the data posted? This has been my concern about just getting rid of it for the sake of not liking it. Who is evaluating the effectiveness of the program?
DoctorCueNC
Knows what a fatty is.
I’m sure if you contacted Mark Gibbs of Checkered Flag 500 BBQ team he could get you more info as he is the one who has done it. I’ve seen some of the info posted to judge groups on Facebook he is a member of.
CBQ
is One Chatty Farker
I preferred having it in place. Judges aren't completely random, some do consistently score high or low.
GrillBillie_D
Full Fledged Farker
I just read through his comments on FB. I am starting to think that they may have jumped too soon to get rid of this. He does state that he does data analysis for a living and what prompted him to study this idea was not on him hitting a bad table but rather him getting an RGC that he feels he never should have gotten. He says that analysis showed how flawed the old system was, including that seating by experience was the worst.
I guess we'll wait and see what happens next.
I bailed on Facebook years ago. Before I consider going back to look at that info, is there any mention of his methodology in analysis or how judges are seated?
can you just imagine if KCBS would doing something easy and sensible, but not to cost effective.
Scantron the score cards. Bubble sheets like they do with the SATS. Scanners are a few hundred each for portable USB models. They would need one at every contest, which means the reps have to have them. Would be $$$.
It could be programmed to gather all demographics, tally scores, calculate the results and then store all the information. All information read in seconds. Contests results will be spewed out in under a minute with no data entry.
Collects all demographics and stores historical data..
Rep data
Host Data
Contest data
Judge data
team data
and all scores. Automatically tracking judge history, team history and calculating results. Statistical Trending can be done thru Business Analytics. A rookie data miner can do wonders with this level of simple.. and a judges seating chart can be created either based on their historical data trends or completely randomized.
Not difficult at all...
Generalized sheets can be custom designed for KCBS contests collecting all necessary data and all judges have to do is fill in the bubbles. Drop the completed cards into a scanner and all the rep would have to do is hit "complete" when all sheets are in. Cards are read and results come out in seconds.
hey..one can dream right?? :twitch:
Attachments
Funtimebbq
Full Fledged Farker
I like that thinking. Wonder how the machine would take to bbq sauce stains on the scantron, LOL.
Regarding the topic, I pushed in favor of the judge seating program simply because random creates more TODs and TOAs than a room full of balanced by average tables. It was not perfect but over the last year I heard only two people say they were victims of a TOD. That was far better than hearing about it constantly and blaming poor judge training or just poor judging.
I want to give the new BOD the benefit of the doubt and will try to listen to the MP3 audio of the meeting to see if there was a logical reason other than organizers did not like it. I hope organizers and our KCBS Board remembers that once the Reps report to the contest, control of the tent is no longer in the hands of the organizer. And if the Rep committee was opposed to reverting back, that should say something to our Board.
Regarding the topic, I pushed in favor of the judge seating program simply because random creates more TODs and TOAs than a room full of balanced by average tables. It was not perfect but over the last year I heard only two people say they were victims of a TOD. That was far better than hearing about it constantly and blaming poor judge training or just poor judging.
I want to give the new BOD the benefit of the doubt and will try to listen to the MP3 audio of the meeting to see if there was a logical reason other than organizers did not like it. I hope organizers and our KCBS Board remembers that once the Reps report to the contest, control of the tent is no longer in the hands of the organizer. And if the Rep committee was opposed to reverting back, that should say something to our Board.
gettinbasted
is Blowin Smoke!
It wasn’t just organizers. Many many cooks wanted it gone as well (including myself).
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