Question on Brisket fat content vs stall time

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Big_T_BBQ

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I exclusively eat grass fed beef - including brisket. It is very lean due to the diet and the cows being free range. I think that this is why I see a much lower stall temp (145-150) and lower finish temp of 160-165. I probe test (feel) to tell when it's done but I keep track of the temps. The brisket is still tender and has a nice pull, but it's not as tender as a modern farming methods brisket.

My thoughts are that fat is a better medium of heat transfer than water (muscle) so with less fat you're not going to get as hot internally and as a result you're not going to get as tender.

Am I crazy or does that seem right?
 
Interesting. Never had grass fed beef brisket, but I think you are on to something here. I'm thinking maybe not so much an issue of heat transfer but just that the process of the fat redering and releasing itself is a longer process than the process of just water/blood rendering itself out as steam. I have no real idea. Just tossing it out there too.

I'll be watching to see what the experts have to say.

Bob
 
Where do buy the meat? I am in San Jose as well and prefer the flavor of grass fed.

Thanks
 
dunga said:
Where do buy the meat? I am in San Jose as well and prefer the flavor of grass fed.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Lunardi's on Branham and Meridian - The stock Humboldt Grass Fed - not ideally local but it works. They get a fresh carcass every Tuesday.
 
Thanks for the tip. I even have a $25 gift certificate to Lunardi's I have never used!
 
Ive never gotten that deep into what the cows are fed...
But tend to agree...
May be why I chose to cook briskets that run from...
grades of... select, choice, and prime, more marbling, the better ..:thumb:
select for birthday parties...choice or better for competition...
 
Interesting. One thing to ponder. It's not the fat that breaks down that is creating the plateau, it's the collagen (at least that's what I've heard/learned from food scientists). Collagen just has a different process for breaking down. Having said that, you're probably spot on as there is probably a lower collagen content in the briskets.
 
Someone said yesterday on my Wagyu post that they don't stall as long and they have a higher fat content then "regular" briskets, not sure about the collagen .... its worth looking into
 
Tweedle said:
Someone said yesterday on my Wagyu post that they don't stall as long and they have a higher fat content then "regular" briskets, not sure about the collagen .... its worth looking into
Click to expand...

The "no stall" Wagyu was what reminded me to post. :-D

And to clarify what I meant about the fat content and heat; I was thinking the lower fat causes a lower internal temp which doesn't break down the collagen as well - because you're mainly doing it with the water from the muscle which is at a lower temp.

Thanks to all for Chiming in :thumb:
 
When I completely removed all the fat from my last brisket (both point and flat), all that was left was any internal fat (mostly in the point). There was no stall when it was smoked.
 
IMHO......grass only fed beef is chewy and not nearly as flavorful. I do like MGWERKS method of trimming all the fat, but his brisket on another thread I'm pretty sure was not grass fed beef.
 
Someone already mentioned the collagen, that's the stall. So the difference would be there I would imagine.
 
Big_T_BBQ said:
I exclusively eat grass fed beef - including brisket. It is very lean due to the diet and the cows being free range. I think that this is why I see a much lower stall temp (145-150) and lower finish temp of 160-165. I probe test (feel) to tell when it's done but I keep track of the temps. The brisket is still tender and has a nice pull, but it's not as tender as a modern farming methods brisket.

My thoughts are that fat is a better medium of heat transfer than water (muscle) so with less fat you're not going to get as hot internally and as a result you're not going to get as tender.

Am I crazy or does that seem right?
Click to expand...

Let me understand this, do you foil? if you do at what temp. What temp are you cooking at?

The brisket will start to break down around 160 to 165 but not become tender until the 185-195 mark, from my experience it has nothing to do with the feed. I cook grass feed, wal-mart and no-name brand along with $12 lb brisket (I still want my brother in law to ex-plane that one) and some are shoe leather some are not.

Have you ever let it go to 190-195 or is it you cannot or is it a time issue
 
Trout_man22 said:
Let me understand this, do you foil? if you do at what temp. What temp are you cooking at?

The brisket will start to break down around 160 to 165 but not become tender until the 185-195 mark, from my experience it has nothing to do with the feed. I cook grass feed, wal-mart and no-name brand along with $12 lb brisket (I still want my brother in law to ex-plane that one) and some are shoe leather some are not.

Have you ever let it go to 190-195 or is it you cannot or is it a time issue
Click to expand...

Trout_man - I have yet to foil a brisket. I cook 10 lb (no fat cap) briskets at 225 F and cook times have ranged from 10-14 hours. I see a distinct stall (2-3 hours) and even some temperature drop in the 145 range then when it starts moving again it becomes probe tender at 160-165. When it's done it is juicy and very flavorful but not as tender as other brisket I've had.
 
Big_T_BBQ said:
Trout_man - I have yet to foil a brisket. I cook 10 lb (no fat cap) briskets at 225 F and cook times have ranged from 10-14 hours. I see a distinct stall (2-3 hours) and even some temperature drop in the 145 range then when it starts moving again it becomes probe tender at 160-165. When it's done it is juicy and very flavorful but not as tender as other brisket I've had.
Click to expand...

Have you checked your thermometer? I'm not doubting you, but I don't remember pulling a finished brisket at 165.

The difference in flavor makes sense to me. Range fed beef does have a different flavor, but I don't know that I'd say less flavor really. On the other hand, I do believe that fat=flavor.

I'm looking into setting up a small breeding program, and some advice that makes all the sense in the world and confirms what my grandfather did, is to remove as much stress from the animal as possible. I see no reason that wouldn't apply whether you finish on grain or grass. Some of the issues you describe could be attributed to the source of the beef you are getting.
 
this is just my .02. We are very fortunate to be sponsored by Brandt Beef in California, they raise Holstein Steers which are fed a diet of steamed corn mash and chopped Sudan grass for at least 365 days.

This diet creates a different fat profile and marbling of the beef in general, it has been explained to me that strictly grass fed steer are normally leaner than corn or blended feed beef, this leads to less fat, which translates to less colagen to breakdown, I have noticed that when I have cooked a grassfed brisket it tends to be dryer, and shrinks more, i also have seen them finish in as little as 6 hours. below is a picture of the Brandt Point
 

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I have checked thermometers - when I first found this I thought mine was busted so I checked with another and got the same result.

The briskets I get are generally longer, wider, and shorter/thinner than a standard brisket. They are also a lot leaner - byproduct of the diet and being free range. I'm going to do a clod this weekend to see what kind of results I get from that.

I've been really happy with the grass fed steak and roast cuts and I love the flavor I'm getting but I just want the brisket to be more tender
 
Take one to 195

Big_T_BBQ said:
I have checked thermometers - when I first found this I thought mine was busted so I checked with another and got the same result.

The briskets I get are generally longer, wider, and shorter/thinner than a standard brisket. They are also a lot leaner - byproduct of the diet and being free range. I'm going to do a clod this weekend to see what kind of results I get from that.

I've been really happy with the grass fed steak and roast cuts and I love the flavor I'm getting but I just want the brisket to be more tender
Click to expand...


If tenderness is the goal, and many Qer's recommend foil @ 165 and take it to 195, why not try that?
 
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