Charcuterie question

fantomlord · Jan 3, 2017

just butchered up a small hog, and was hoping to do something a little different, and venture a little deeper into charcuterie.

was looking at the big charcuterie thread, and hoping to do something along these lines:
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3174209&postcount=56

thread: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205412&highlight=prosciutto&page=2

hoping Fatback Joe will weigh in with a little more detail on the process...

any other advice (along with recipes/guides) is more than welcome!

Thanks everyone :thumb:

Wood Fire Steel · Jan 4, 2017

I vote Coppa is you are willing to give up a money muscle off of you pork butts. If it is a small pig it may be too small. Most people don't utilize the fat these days. You can cure it. Very much different than you would think. Amazing.

Shagdog · Jan 4, 2017

You will use an equilibrium cure for something like that.(base all spice measurements as a percentage of meat weight) I don't know what recipe Joe used exactly. I would search the inter webs for lonzino recipes.. maybe something like this -

http://curedmeats.blogspot.com/2008/06/lonzino.html?m=1

If you make a tenderloin, watch it closely. The lack of fat will make it dry quickly. I would bet it loses 30-40% in a couple of weeks.

fantomlord · Jan 4, 2017

Shagdog said:
You will use an equilibrium cure for something like that.(base all spice measurements as a percentage of meat weight) I don't know what recipe Joe used exactly. I would search the inter webs for lonzino recipes.. maybe something like this -

http://curedmeats.blogspot.com/2008/06/lonzino.html?m=1

If you make a tenderloin, watch it closely. The lack of fat will make it dry quickly. I would bet it loses 30-40% in a couple of weeks.

So, this would be cure #2?

I have no fancy equipment, just a small dorm sized fridge and a cool basement. This mentions a mild spray, And I've seen mention of mold in some of the threads...is this necessary? What does the mold do? Also, when I hang to dry, I'm aiming for a certain weight loss percent? Do I need casings, or could I wrap in cheesecloth and hang? Will it drip at all (wondering if I need something to catch liquid underneath it).

Thanks for all the help!

Shagdog · Jan 4, 2017

Yes, cure its cure #2. .25% of the weight of the meat. You don't need to spray or ferment a whole meat like this. I don't think the mold would hardly grow before the meat was done.

Just mix the cure up according to the weight of the meat, combine all of the cure and the meat into a ziploc or vac bag, and put it in the fridge for 2-3 weeks. Then remove the meat, rinse off the cure, dry the outside the best you can with some paper towels, and hang it up in your basement until weight loss is about 30-35%. Tie it up to keep its shape more consistent, and then leave some extra string on one end to hang it from. If it does get mold on it, just wipe it off with a papertowel and vinegar.

EDIT- After the weight loss is complete, Vac seal it and put it in your fridge and forget about it for 3-4 months minimal. Without a curing fridge you are probably going to have some case hardening (the outside edges will be hard and dry, the middle will still be wet. So you lost 50% of the weight from the outside and 10-20% from the middle, instead of 30% from everywhere. This is why we use the high humidity chambers, to minimize this effect.. Without a chamber, there will definitely be a bit more uneven moisture loss. The longer you let it sit in a vac sealed bag, the better the moisture in the meat can equalize and mitigate the case hardening.)

The spray is a harmless white mold that you can coat your salamis in. By growing this "good" mold, there's no where for the "bad" molds to take hold. Even bad molds won't really wreck your sausage unless you let them get out of hand. You don't want anything fuzzy, or anything in the black/grey family. They say greens are ok, but I usually wipe them too. When in doubt, just clean the whole thing. It doesn't really do anything for the flavor.

You can try the cheesecloth or a large casing, but I never have that much luck with them.

If you dry it off well, it really won't drip at all. The only drips will com from however wet the outside is when you hang it

Fatback Joe · Jan 4, 2017

Looks like Shag has you covered.

For whole muscle cures, I don't even mess with the cure #2 any more, but that is just personal preference. Adding it at the rate he mentioned is probably a good idea if you are not to sure about things. .25% of the raw weight.

I do an EQ cure with sea salt at 2.5% of the meats raw weight. I will try to remember to look for that "recipe" in particular tonight. I went through a stretch where I was very good with the note taking. I'll post all the details if I can find them.

Don't sweat the molds, like Shag said, wipe with vinegar if you can't stand looking at them. I have been wiping with red wine, same effect, but smells better.

Good luck. Looking forward to hearing how this goes.

fantomlord · Jan 4, 2017

Shagdog said:
Yes, cure its cure #2. .25% of the weight of the meat. You don't need to spray or ferment a whole meat like this. I don't think the mold would hardly grow before the meat was done.

Just mix the cure up according to the weight of the meat, combine all of the cure and the meat into a ziploc or vac bag, and put it in the fridge for 2-3 weeks. Then remove the meat, rinse off the cure, dry the outside the best you can with some paper towels, and hang it up in your basement until weight loss is about 30-35%. Tie it up to keep its shape more consistent, and then leave some extra string on one end to hang it from. If it does get mold on it, just wipe it off with a papertowel and vinegar.

EDIT- After the weight loss is complete, Vac seal it and put it in your fridge and forget about it for 3-4 months minimal. Without a curing fridge you are probably going to have some case hardening (the outside edges will be hard and dry, the middle will still be wet. So you lost 50% of the weight from the outside and 10-20% from the middle, instead of 30% from everywhere. This is why we use the high humidity chambers, to minimize this effect.. Without a chamber, there will definitely be a bit more uneven moisture loss. The longer you let it sit in a vac sealed bag, the better the moisture in the meat can equalize and mitigate the case hardening.)

The spray is a harmless white mold that you can coat your salamis in. By growing this "good" mold, there's no where for the "bad" molds to take hold. Even bad molds won't really wreck your sausage unless you let them get out of hand. You don't want anything fuzzy, or anything in the black/grey family. They say greens are ok, but I usually wipe them too. When in doubt, just clean the whole thing. It doesn't really do anything for the flavor.

You can try the cheesecloth or a large casing, but I never have that much luck with them.

If you dry it off well, it really won't drip at all. The only drips will com from however wet the outside is when you hang it

Fatback Joe said:
Looks like Shag has you covered.

For whole muscle cures, I don't even mess with the cure #2 any more, but that is just personal preference. Adding it at the rate he mentioned is probably a good idea if you are not to sure about things. .25% of the raw weight.

I do an EQ cure with sea salt at 2.5% of the meats raw weight. I will try to remember to look for that "recipe" in particular tonight. I went through a stretch where I was very good with the note taking. I'll post all the details if I can find them.

Don't sweat the molds, like Shag said, wipe with vinegar if you can't stand looking at them. I have been wiping with red wine, same effect, but smells better.

Good luck. Looking forward to hearing how this goes.

thanks for the infos, gentlemen!

one last question (until I come up with another)...weight loss is based on weight after curing? or is it based on starting weight before cure?

Shagdog · Jan 4, 2017

The two weights should be pretty similar but I usually weigh right before it hangs, just because I never remember to write it down sooner. I'll just hang a tag on the meat and document the weight loss every week or 2.. although I honestly don't remember the last time I weighed one. I just go by the squishy test now. This whole thing is really not that hard to do :becky:

Until you've done a few though, definitely weigh them.

MisterChrister · Jan 4, 2017

Pig is a filthy, disgusting animal. I can't believe that you'd feed that to your wife and sons!

Meet me at Kwik Trip on River Road tomorrow morning, and I'll dispose of that for you. Oh, and please bring beer. And moonshine...... :wink:

fantomlord · Jan 4, 2017

MisterChrister said:
Pig is a filthy, disgusting animal. I can't believe that you'd feed that to your wife and sons!

Meet me at Kwik Trip on River Road tomorrow morning, and I'll dispose of that for you. Oh, and please bring beer. And moonshine...... :wink:

Who said anything about letting them eat any of it? :-D

MisterChrister · Jan 4, 2017

fantomlord said:
Who said anything about letting them eat any of it? :-D

Sounds like a plan. Then I'll bring the beer! It's Hopslam season in another week or so my friend! :thumb:

Fatback Joe · Jan 5, 2017

Shagdog said:
The two weights should be pretty similar but I usually weigh right before it hangs, just because I never remember to write it down sooner. I'll just hang a tag on the meat and document the weight loss every week or 2.. although I honestly don't remember the last time I weighed one. I just go by the squishy test now. This whole thing is really not that hard to do :becky:

Until you've done a few though, definitely weigh them.

Agreed, the difference in weight before and after cure is pretty small in my experience. I weight right before hanging as well.

I still weigh everything before it goes in, although I don't track it like I did when I first started out. It came in handy a couple of weeks back, I had some pepperoni hanging that I thought should be done, so I weighed them and they had lost about 40% but were still pretty soft.........very soft......anyhow, long story short I threw away the whole batch.

daninnewjersey · Jan 5, 2017

Shagdog said:
I just go by the squishy test now.

I'm really interested in creating charcuterie, too. What's the squishy test?

newtwoq · Jan 5, 2017

Man, everytime I see one of these threads, I want to give it a go.

NickTheGreat · Jan 5, 2017

I hate threads like this. I don't need any more hobbies! :wacko:

newtwoq · Jan 5, 2017

Ok dumb question, the only thing that has been holding me back from trying this is having a chamber, am I being ridiculous that I have to have a chamber before starting? I get that it is much better to be able to control the temp and humidity, but can it be done with out those controls in place?

Fatback Joe · Jan 5, 2017

newtwoq said:
Ok dumb question, the only thing that has been holding me back from trying this is having a chamber, am I being ridiculous that I have to have a chamber before starting? I get that it is much better to be able to control the temp and humidity, but can it be done with out those controls in place?

It is that much better, but it can certainly be done, meat curing is sure older than refrigerators. :biggrin1:

The first several things I cured were done in a basement in Mass. Pretty good results as the conditions down there stayed pretty steady for the most part. Having a chamber makes things much closer to "set it and forget it"

Fatback Joe · Jan 5, 2017

daninnewjersey said:
I'm really interested in creating charcuterie, too. What's the squishy test?

Just giving the salami/meat a squeeze and seeing how squishy it is and judging its doneness by that.

newtwoq · Jan 5, 2017

Fatback Joe said:
It is that much better, but it can certainly be done, meat curing is sure older than refrigerators. :biggrin1:

The first several things I cured were done in a basement in Mass. Pretty good results as the conditions down there stayed pretty steady for the most part. Having a chamber makes things much closer to "set it and forget it"

Trust me, I get it, I'm also into brewing beer and fully understand the importance of temp regulation. :mrgreen:

I might see if the wife minds if I turn our small wine fridge that we never use into a chamber. What would the recommended distance from top to bottom be for a first chamber?:twisted:

Fatback Joe · Jan 5, 2017

newtwoq said:
What would the recommended distance from top to bottom be for a first chamber?:twisted:

My first chamber was a little dorm fridge. I couldn't do a proscuitto, but most everything else was fair game.

Charcuterie question

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