How do you get better?

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bradgreer

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Hello all.
So here is my question...Let's say that you have competed in a couple of contests and you are not getting he results that you want. How do you improve your taste scores? (Let's assume "taste" scores since I would guess that appearance and tenderness are a little easier to adjust.)
How do you know what to add or subtract? Too much heat...Too little heat etc...How do you know what direction to go without flying blind?

Thanks,
 
Some of the best advice I got after about 3 contests was to learn to cook the meat correctly (tenderness wise) and you can put many combinations of the commercially available rubs and sauces and score well. We started out using our rubs and sauces, not because we wanted to win with our stuff, but because we didn't know any better :-D. When we switched to the stuff that was more common taste score immediately went up.

Tenderness is still very key because I fully believe that even if you have great flavor and your tenderness is off the flavor scores still get dinged.

Are you using any popular rubs/sauces? We don't need specifics, but most things teams use aren't super spicy.
 
my best advice is to skip your next contest, take the money you saved and pay a reputable team to let you cook with them for a contest. you will learn what winning food tastes like and many other tips and tricks that will help you improve across the board. I'm not sure of the percentages but it is safe to say that most of the top teams took a class from another team at some point.
 
Take a judging class then judge a couple contests, I just did my first judging this weekend, and right off the bat learned that flavor profiles are all very close to the same(balanced), it was tenderness(texture) that effected scoring the most.
 
bradgreer said:
Hello all.
So here is my question...Let's say that you have competed in a couple of contests and you are not getting he results that you want. How do you improve your taste scores? (Let's assume "taste" scores since I would guess that appearance and tenderness are a little easier to adjust.)
How do you know what to add or subtract? Too much heat...Too little heat etc...How do you know what direction to go without flying blind?

Thanks,
Click to expand...


The solution is above, but I'm going to re-word your question so that it becomes more readily obvious:

My scores aren't improving. I'm not certain what the standard is that I'm being judged to/against. Are there ways to find out exactly what wins and doesn't, and why? I'm looking to improve my test scores but don't know where to go.


<Did I accurately say this above?> If so, your answer is go judge a few contests and see. It doesn't even have to be in the same sanctioning body, except they'll define tenderness slightly different, or not allow garnish or the same types of garnish, etc.

Judging will allow you to not only understand the judging process better, but you'll be able to taste winning and losing entries and understand why they performed well or not so well.
 
columbia1 said:
Take a judging class then judge a couple contests, I just did my first judging this weekend, and right off the bat learned that flavor profiles are all very close to the same(balanced), it was tenderness(texture) that effected scoring the most.
Click to expand...

What he said
 
bradgreer said:
Hello all.
How do you know what to add or subtract? Too much heat...Too little heat etc...How do you know what direction to go without flying blind?
Click to expand...

Do not trust your own tastebuds - they have already shown you they are unreliable.

You need to re-calibrate your palate to match that of the typical KCBS judge. To do that you can try one or more of the following methods:

-> Become a CBJ and judge several contests
-> Find successful teams who will allow you to sample their product
-> Take a "nothing held back" class from a winning team
-> Scour online forums for clues on the rubs & sauces other teams are using

The one thing I would definitely suggest is that you don't start with your homemade recipes and try to "fix" them. As Jason suggested earlier - better to work with some of the "popular" commercial products until you have achieved consistent high scores. Then if you want to create your own stuff you'll be doing it with a solid understanding of the type of flavors that are already working with the judges.

This is not to say that it is impossible to start from scratch and make some new, amazing sauce or spice mix that takes the KCBS world by storm - rather it is a lot easier to learn to do something if you can watch someone else do it first.
 
You have to either judge or make friends with "good" teams and "ask" for some help. You just might find out that some folks are nicer than you expected. No, they ain't gonna tell everything, but you will get on the correct trail.:wink:
 
Burnt at Both Endz said:
You have to either judge or make friends with "good" teams and "ask" for some help. You just might find out that some folks are nicer than you expected. No, they ain't gonna tell everything, but you will get on the correct trail.:wink:
Click to expand...

Calvin, we need to talk. Lol.. Congrats on your RC this past weekend. Keith
 
The biggest help I had was when I took a class. I took it to learn how to cook brisket correctly, but also learned some good tips on the other meats.

As someone else pointed out, learn to properly cook the meat, including how much smoke flavor to have. Flavor scores almost always follow tenderness scores. It is easier to get a 9 on flavor if the the tenderness is there. It is almost impossible to get one if it overdone or underdone.
 
practice! get your weights, times and temperatures down pat. learn control over your smoker and be able to produce a predictible result time after time. when it comes down to producing a perfectly cooked product, control is key. i agree with what has already been stated about tenderness being most important. if it is not cooked right it won't taste right.
 
When we were practicing for our first KCBS contest, I invited a friend of mine over (who is an experienced and successful KCBS competitor) to give us feedback. Some of the results were "tough to hear" but it was one of the best things I've ever done to improve as a cook. Also, it made for a fun day.
 
I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes? There are 2 ways to get better. The first is taking a class. Sure you have a large pay to begin but all it takes is to cook one contest and you will have spent more than the class. Remember, flavors are not everything. A perfectly cooked meat is the goal. Which leads me to the other way to get good. OK every weekend in your backyard. Learn how to cook different sized meats. Remember that every brisket doesn't come at 14#. When you think you have that down. Cook overnight at home and then do it again.... Immediately, this way you are cooking tired and cooking at off hours. Nothing sucks worse cooking in the backyard and having to pull meat at 2::00 am. When you think you have that down, practice more. When you really think you have it down, cook more. When every neighbor, co-workers and the crossing guard all tell you that you have the best BBQ ever. Don't believe their ass, you aren't even close. You still need to practice. When you can do th is blindfolded, move on to flavors.. Follow the above time line that I described on how to cook BBQ. When you have chicken for dinner 5 nights a week for a month. You might be there. Now you only have to get lucky with the judges....
 
Last edited:
Scottie said:
I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes? There are 2 ways to get better. The first is taking a class. Sure you have a large pay to begin but all it takes is to cook one contest and you will have spent more than the class. Remember, flavors are not everything. A perfectly cooked meat is the goal. Which leads me to the other way to get good. OK every weekend in your backyard. Learn how to cook different sized meats. Remember that every brisket doesn't come at 14#. When you think you have that down. Cook overnight at home and then do it again.... Immediately, this way you are cooking tired and cooking at off hours. Nothing sucks worse cooking in the backyard and having to pull meat at 2::00 am. When you think you have that down, practice more. When you really think you have it down, cook more. When every neighbor, co-workers and the crossing guard all tell you that you have the best BBQ ever. Don't believe their ass, you aren't even close. You still need to practice. When you can do th is blindfolded, more on to flavors.. Follow the above time line that I described on how to cook BBQ. When you have chicken for dinner 5 nights a week for a month. You might be there. Now you only have to get lucky with the judges....
Click to expand...

Before I started competing I took the CBJ class and judged 3 contests. I can tell you that doing both was extremely helpful. The class tells you specifically what the judges are looking for, how they think and how they judge. If you don't know those things you are simply shooting in the dark. Judging showed how it all worked as well as allowed me to see actual turn ins and boxes. I also go to taste what was cooked and talk with other judges about what they look for and how it works. It was time and money very well spent.

I agree with the practice. That is the most crucial part.
 
1 way to improve vastly in one year.

1. Throw out all preconceived notions of what you FEEL perfect BBQ is
2. Take a class from a top team that will share ALL the secrets. Write down how everything feels in your palate. Record yourself when you taste their food. Pay attention to everything and write it down, leave nothing to chance.
3. Do exactly what they say, cook exactly how they tell you to cook.
4. Do this twice to three times a week in your backyard until it is second nature. Do it in all weather conditions. If you know it is going to storm, do a butt and a briskey. see how you and your cooker do and record everything. This way, when it storms at a contest, you have a very good idea what will happen and how it will effect you.
5. Read the CBJ handbook and take the class. Download pics of perfect scoring boxes off the net and make a build folder.
6. Enter a contest and see how you do
 
Scottie said:
I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes? There are 2 ways to get better. The first is taking a class. Sure you have a large pay to begin but all it takes is to cook one contest and you will have spent more than the class. Remember, flavors are not everything. A perfectly cooked meat is the goal. Which leads me to the other way to get good. OK every weekend in your backyard. Learn how to cook different sized meats. Remember that every brisket doesn't come at 14#. When you think you have that down. Cook overnight at home and then do it again.... Immediately, this way you are cooking tired and cooking at off hours. Nothing sucks worse cooking in the backyard and having to pull meat at 2::00 am. When you think you have that down, practice more. When you really think you have it down, cook more. When every neighbor, co-workers and the crossing guard all tell you that you have the best BBQ ever. Don't believe their ass, you aren't even close. You still need to practice. When you can do th is blindfolded, more on to flavors.. Follow the above time line that I described on how to cook BBQ. When you have chicken for dinner 5 nights a week for a month. You might be there. Now you only have to get lucky with the judges....
Click to expand...

I judged about 10-15 contests and then took a couple classes, used the knowledge that I got from talking with other judges about turn ins and then adjusted the recipes to what I thought judges scored well. Judged a little more while I practiced and won a GC on the first contest I cooked. Would suggest the same trail for anyone else wanting to get into comp cooking.

I guess I combined judging with your 2 suggestions.:thumb:
 
Scottie said:
I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes? There are 2 ways to get better. The first is taking a class. Sure you have a large pay to begin but all it takes is to cook one contest and you will have spent more than the class. Remember, flavors are not everything. A perfectly cooked meat is the goal. Which leads me to the other way to get good. OK every weekend in your backyard. Learn how to cook different sized meats. Remember that every brisket doesn't come at 14#. When you think you have that down. Cook overnight at home and then do it again.... Immediately, this way you are cooking tired and cooking at off hours. Nothing sucks worse cooking in the backyard and having to pull meat at 2::00 am. When you think you have that down, practice more. When you really think you have it down, cook more. When every neighbor, co-workers and the crossing guard all tell you that you have the best BBQ ever. Don't believe their ass, you aren't even close. You still need to practice. When you can do th is blindfolded, more on to flavors.. Follow the above time line that I described on how to cook BBQ. When you have chicken for dinner 5 nights a week for a month. You might be there. Now you only have to get lucky with the judges....
Click to expand...


Becoming a CBJ and judging few comps is one of the BEST things you can do to help you. Just think about it. You will see and taste what the " pros " turn in.
Anyone telling you something different definitely has no clue what they talking about.
Of course a class or cooking with winning team is a huge plus.
 
Scottie said:
I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes?
Click to expand...

Not so much becoming a CBJ (the class), as judging 2 or 3 contests. Even taking a class tells you techniques and some why's and why nots, but nothing is like sitting at a few tables and judging for yourself to get that "picture worth 1000 words" experience, and then afterwards discussing this and that with other judges to see what they thought and more importantly, WHY.
 
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