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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 06-28-2013, 02:38 PM   #16
BMerrill
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Forget everything you have seen on BBQ Pitmasters.
They are not judging under KCBS rules.

Take judging serious, you are there to judge, not to eat lunch and save some for a snack. Cooks have spent many hours of time, preparation, and expense to present what's in the box. They deserve a fair and honest evaluation. With that said, before you can get your CMJ, you will be required to help a cook team. Do this early. You will have a greater appreciation of what's in the box.

Judge what is presented, not what you want.
Example: Skinless/ boneless chicken, is just that, boneless/skinless chicken. Neither are required in the box. If it isn't in the box you can not judge it, nor make speculations of why it isn't. If it looks good, taste good and is tender and moist, then score it accordingly. If a judge makes a comment like, "Guess entry ### can't cook chicken skin" on a skinless entry, let the table captian know. The rep should caution and/or remove the judge.

Thick sliced brisket, is thick sliced brisket. Contrary to popular belief, it's not sliced thicker because it is over cooked. No where in the rules says brisket should be sliced to the thickness of a #2 pencil. No burnt ends? They are not required either.

When I took my CBJ class the scoring system was discriped like this.
9-you will eat it all and then tell your significate other how fantistic it was. You want another piece.
8-you will eat most of it, then tell your significate other how good it is, offering them a small bite and eat the rest.
7- you will eat a few bits, tell your significate other how good it is, offering them a few large bites, and eat most of it.
6- you taste a small bite, it taste like resturant chain food. You offer it all to your significate other. Don't finish your plate. Fill out a comment card.
5 and below- you taste, may spit it out. Don't offer it to anyone. Fill out a comment card using both sides.
2- Not eatable.

After the contest, please spent some time walking around and talking with the cooks. It is much appreciated.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 04:01 PM   #17
Bentley
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Period. My only addition to that sentence would be ANY Judge.

If it is Great, Average, or Poor, judge it that way.

Be prepared to articulate why you gave every entry the score you did, whether you have to or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlyle View Post
My advice to a new judge is not to go into the contest with preconceived ideas of what you are looking for.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoeric View Post
Whether or not you dislike vinegar sauces, mustard sauces, unsauced meat, etc. isn't relevant. Judge what you've been presented.
I hear this a lot from judges but don't think I get it. If I don't like vinegar based sauces and I am presented with an entry of pulled pork with a vinegar based sauce How can I judge it? If I don't like the taste of vinegar how do I know if it is a good vinegar based sauce or a not so good vinegar based sauce. I'm not talking about a sauce that is so strong that it will know your socks off just a "normal" vinegar based sauce.

There are no KCBS guidelines for taste for a reason...people like different tastes. If I don't like something I am presented, I will naturally score it lower than if I liked it.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 04:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
If you give a 5 or lower, complete a comment card and tell people why. Don't speculate on what they did wrong ("you overcooked it"), just tell them what you didn't like ("it was too dry").
With the new score program, comment cards can not be tracked so therefore, they are going away. Not something that I would have done but, computer programmers are limited in their ability, especially the ones that KCBS contracted.

This will be in place by mid-July.

Takes a load off of the judges as they will not have to be able to read and write. (this was meant sarcastically (sp))
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Unread 06-28-2013, 05:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoKanMeathead View Post
I hear this a lot from judges but don't think I get it. If I don't like vinegar based sauces and I am presented with an entry of pulled pork with a vinegar based sauce How can I judge it? If I don't like the taste of vinegar how do I know if it is a good vinegar based sauce or a not so good vinegar based sauce. I'm not talking about a sauce that is so strong that it will know your socks off just a "normal" vinegar based sauce.

There are no KCBS guidelines for taste for a reason...people like different tastes. If I don't like something I am presented, I will naturally score it lower than if I liked it.
I do somewhat see where you are coming from here and you are right that there isn't a written guideline for taste. But vinegar based sauces are a big part of the BBQ world. It would be like someone judging a cake contest, but a judge doesn't like dark chocolate (a common flavor in cake). So do they hammer each team that submits dark chocolate cake and is that fair? I guess I'm saying if a person doesn't like one of the main flavors of a competition/food they are judging (whether its chili, cake, bbq, seafood, burger cookoff, etc) they they shouldn't judge.
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Unread 06-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #21
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Unless you are an award-winning competitor, do not score down because you "can do better than that at home."
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Unread 06-28-2013, 10:36 PM   #22
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My experience at my 1st contest was that everything was awesome and I probably gave high scores. These cooks are amazing but overtime you will start to figure out the subtle differences between a "9" and a "7". Just judge each meat as it's presented. Take enough of a sample to judge an entry fairly but be careful not to "overindulge" in the early catagories or you might so full that pork and brisket don't get your full attention. Enjoy the experience and I guarantee that you will meet some of the nicest people you will ever meet.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 12:24 AM   #23
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Lot's of good things being mentioned in this thread. It is very difficult to leave your personal tastes out of the judging. As mentioned people like different things. Some like vinegar or mustard based sauces, some don't, so how do we judge things we don't like. It was mentioned, balance. Does the everything that went into that piece of BBQ on your judging sheet balance. Does the sauce over power the meat? Does the rub over power it. Or does it meld with the meat and make everything work together? When ever I get something that is not with the "normal" flavor profile, I try to work out if the new rub or sauce enhance the BBQ meat to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts. As for scoring it's right there on the card 9=Excellent (NOT PERFECT as some has pointed out) 8=Very Good, 7=Above Average, 6=Average, 5=Below Average, 4=Poor, 3=Bad, 2=Inedible. Just as you should not be afraid to give 9's, don't be afraid to give 6's or lower. But, let the team know why you gave them a low score. If judges give everything nothing lower than a 7's then we are being dishonest as well. I have had contests where I was amazed at the outstanding BBQ entries I was allowed to judge. I have also had contests where most of the entries were less stellar as well. It is the luck of the draw. But most important be have an open mind when you judge the entries.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 03:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
With the new score program, comment cards can not be tracked so therefore, they are going away. Not something that I would have done but, computer programmers are limited in their ability, especially the ones that KCBS contracted.

This will be in place by mid-July.

Takes a load off of the judges as they will not have to be able to read and write. (this was meant sarcastically (sp))
That is bulls##t and laziness, it should not be much of a deal to program in functionality for someone to put notes in with a given score.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 08:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGateJoecom View Post
That is bulls##t and laziness, it should not be much of a deal to program in functionality for someone to put notes in with a given score.
Personally, I'd like to see KCBS go to where every judge was required to provide comments on EVERY score. This way the cooks know exactly what the judge was thinking and would make the judge truly think about what they were giving.
Would this slow down the process, YES, but it would be better for both the cooks and judges. Most likely the turn in times would have to be an hour apart, but that would also help the teams, judges, REPs, and organizer.

Just an idea. Other organizations do it this way very successfully.
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Unread 06-29-2013, 09:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailGateJoecom View Post
That is bulls##t and laziness, it should not be much of a deal to program in functionality for someone to put notes in with a given score.
That is what I thought too. Could it be that they are going to use handhelds that do not have a keyboard?
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Unread 06-29-2013, 05:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauvis View Post
That is what I thought too. Could it be that they are going to use handhelds that do not have a keyboard?
No, the reasoning is the computer is so blind that trying to marry comment cards to the final printout would be hard for the rep to do. I do believe that this is BS but that is why they be history. I know that some people oppose this but, standing up to ML, who is and has been against the comments cards, is a battle that most BM's won't, can't. ba;;'s, to try.
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Unread 06-30-2013, 12:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
No, the reasoning is the computer is so blind that trying to marry comment cards to the final printout would be hard for the rep to do. I do believe that this is BS but that is why they be history. I know that some people oppose this but, standing up to ML, who is and has been against the comments cards, is a battle that most BM's won't, can't. ba;;'s, to try.
I don't understand that. The scores have to get linked to the team, how can comments not be linked up as well.

I have dealt with good devs and bad devs in my time, the good ones can figure out a way to get something done that I require, the bad ones find reasons why it can't or shouldn't be done because they don't know how to do it. I can't imagine this scoring system is sooooo advanced that it supposedly took over 2 years to develop, that would be the first red flag to me.
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