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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 06-21-2013, 02:41 AM   #106
Crash
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Here's what I think.....time to throw a padlock on this amazing thread. It's all over the place and has quickly gotten a severe negative vibe to it.

Nothing good is coming from it. Of course, just one dude's opinion.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #107
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Sweet Raylen Givens reference. Now back to the thread, this whole thing is unfortunate for all involved no matter how you look at it.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #108
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Wake me up when this thread is over. Jeez.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 07:53 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlasman View Post
So do you want to compete in KCBS again?? Guessing not if you are selling your contest rig.

If not what's the point???......to try to get other people to hate the KCBS like you do???

This thread is just one HUGE pile of sour grapes........we're supposed to believe you are taking some high moral ground and they are money grubbing devils all over a $35 fee??? LOL

KCBS is a business.......they SHOULD do everything they can to make money and grow.

I understand you are angry with them and if you want to take your ball and go home that's cool............why try to drag everyone else into it though??


Best of luck whatever you decide.
The point is very simple, he's saying that CHEATING is far worse than BAD JUDGEMENT. Given that fact, the question is why does the punishment for BAD JUDGEMENT out weigh the punishment for CHEATING. Both punishments were handed down by the KCBS. There is no consistency. That was made very clearly in the onset of this thread.

Like I said, the point is very simple and if you would stop trying to take cheap shots, actually read what is being said and NOT twist the facts to suit yourself, then you would understand. I'm not sure if you can't understand because you don't want to or the the lack of oxygen way up there on your soap box is fogging your ability to think clearly. Either way it's obvious that your sole purpose is to take cheap shot. Now if you'll excuse me, I got a fatty to smoke.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 08:02 AM   #110
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Why are these two events being connected? They have nothing to do with each other at all

On one hand is the debate of whether a 3 year ban is appropriate punishment for having a team member wear an inappropriate apron

On the other hand is the debate of whether the punishment for the rep was the correct punishment


But to try to link the 2 is foolish. Your punishment has to stand on its own. To illustrate it lets say 2 guys in 2 separate cars go out driving drunk and they both hit pedestrians and kill them. One guy hires a good lawyer and gets a kind judge and receives a 10 year sentence, the other guy gets a mean judge and gets 20 years. Is the 20 year sentencing unfair? No, its within the realms of the law as a fair punishment, just because someone else got off easier does not change the validity or fairness of his punishment
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Unread 06-21-2013, 08:04 AM   #111
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After reading this and the other thread for 2 days it seems to me that :

A lapse in judgement can ruin a particuliar event but something involving a KCBS rep and falsified score cards has the potential to ruin the reputation of the entire organization and has apparently left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.Seems pretty common sense to me which should of been deemed worse and recieved a harsher penalty, dont really know what the rest of the drama in this was about if people would stick to the OP and stay on topic.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 08:09 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlasman View Post
KCBS is a business.......they SHOULD do everything they can to make money and grow.
For the sake of clarity, the Kansas City Barbecue Society is not a business in the traditional sense. They are a not for profit company which files as a 501(c)3. That means that their primary purpose, whatever it is, is not to make money, but rather to further a non-political cause. It also means that the members of the organization are not allowed to receive any "undue benefit" from being members. IANAL, but this is what I understand to be true. I have been told by a current member of the KCBS BOD that this undue benefit doctrine is the reason why the KCBS can't require that all teams or head cooks be KCBS members.

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Unread 06-21-2013, 08:55 AM   #113
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DMP, I'm thinking that many have problems talking frankly and openly about their "hallowed" organizations; in this case KCBS. Sadly, any organization of any size at all has problems/issues. I sure wish people would understand that the only way to fix problems is to first identify them, and then secondly to delve into them, cause, etc. so that you can work to prevent them from being repeated... Rather, they'd bad-mouth the messenger... Sad.

Cheers, brother, hope to catch a beer with 'ya sometime.


<-- thinking to myself; DMP received a 3 year ban for showing bad judgement (a team member, really)... Shouldn't the folks on the BOD who voted "Yes" receive the same 3 year ban for their bad judgement? Fair is fair, yes?
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Unread 06-21-2013, 09:44 AM   #114
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dmprantz,

You should not have been banned for three years. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Unfortunately there are some who can't see the forest for the trees.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 10:03 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dog BBQ View Post
Exactly. There's a big difference between a "cheater" and someone who made a boneheaded mistake. Not saying which label applies to the Rep (I have no idea), but to borrow DMP's NFL analogy, if the NFL fired a ref every time a boneheaded call was made, the ref corps would be very small.
I think it's more akin to the NFL rep was adding touchdowns that didn't happen vs a blown call. The one single person who can "fix" a contest is the person who enters the scores. That person has to be above reproach. Allowing a person who knowingly entered false data ("I have no idea how it happened" is such a weak argument that I won't even get into it) back in a position where they can do it again and directly affect contest results casts a shadow on every event they touch.

I have a question for DMP - KCBS has banned you from KCBS events yet you are not a KCBS member. How would they enforce this? What are they going to do? not include you in ToY? Have the organizer read you the trespass act?
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Unread 06-21-2013, 10:17 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro View Post
KCBS has banned you from KCBS events yet you are not a KCBS member. How would they enforce this? What are they going to do? not include you in ToY? Have the organizer read you the trespass act?
The funny thing here is that even though I am banned from competing, the KCBS would gladly accept my money, and in fact has told me that they expect that to happen for some considerations. Honestly, this is something that I think is best not to test, but my guess is that if I were to be found competing at a competition by a rep who knows who I am, that entire team would be DQed in every category. Additionally, the head cook of that team (if it's not me) would be banned from competing in KCBS for some period of time, and the length of my ban would be increased. The decision of the rep would be final, and most-to-all organizers have you sign that you agree to follow the KCBS, so they would hope to be insulated from a fraud lawsuit. Even if an organizer told me I could compete, he would likely have signed a contract allowing the reps to make final decisions. I won't say the thought of testing this never crossed my mind, but the cost of a competition followed by the cost of a potential lawsuit makes it silly to even ponder.

I have attended KCBS competitions since my ban, but I've always contacted the reps before hand to explain the situation and to ensure that they know I have no intent on cooking. I've been asked what to do at a comp and refused to answer because it sounded too much like actually participating. My former teamate attended a dual sanctioned event with a team that entered both MBN and KCBS, and a self appointed member of KCBS ban police kept an eagle eye on him all night to make sure that he never participated in the KCBS side of things....

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Unread 06-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #117
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KCBS (Acronym): 1. Corrupt from the neck up...




























OK, OK...posted in jest. Maybe...
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Unread 06-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #118
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If KCBS is such a terrible organization, why do so many people voluntarily choose to spend $700 or more weekend after weekend to attend their sanctioned events and compete?
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Unread 06-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #119
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I was a member of a BOD for a home owners association. We were responsible for enforcing the Deed Restrictions imposed on the property and agreed to by each owner. We had a home owner who was operating a business from their home which was against the bylaws. We attempted to mediate the issue but to no avail. Our final action was filing a law suit against the property owner.

The BOD prevailed in this legal action but we were lectured by the judge that we, the BOD, could not be arbitrary or capricious in our enforcement of the deed restrictions or we would forfeit the right to enforce any. Just some food for thought. The question being could these two actions, when taken together and viewed by a third party not involved in the organization, be considered arbitrary or capricious.
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Unread 06-21-2013, 11:34 AM   #120
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Removing Offtopic post. I should have known better.

dmp

Last edited by dmprantz; 06-21-2013 at 01:13 PM..
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