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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 12-08-2012, 09:56 PM   #16
carlyle
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DawgPhan - respectfully- KCBS is big enough, strong enough, and old enough to not be afraid to tell it like it is.

Turning the Bullsheet into a piece of fluff is not the answer and would perpetuate the problems. Put things out in the open and then clean them up and proclaim the improvement.

And judges get trained once. The career and the habits both good and bad can go on for decades. Hopefully refreshers will soon be offered and and utilized.

And where else is KCBS going to address topics to all members at once? Should the organization ignore or cover up known problems? We already have enough stuff that goes on behind closed doors. Don't need more of that.

And there are a lot of BBQ people who are not smart enough to be on the Brethren
to find out what is what.

And lots of us like KCBS warts and all. A photoshopped version is not necessary.

Articles like David's do not hurt KCBS, they help make us all better.
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Unread 12-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #17
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But writing articles that make it seem that judges are only in it for the food they can take home or that they aren't trained properly is tabloid journalism. I have been judging since 2008 and have done about 40 contests. I have never, ever seen anyone treat a box with other than utmost care. There has be zero shaking or rough handling. I have never seen anyone, other than official photographers, taking pictures of boxes. In between rounds I have seen the smart phones come out and people check their e-mail, surf the web, etc. The only time I have seen a judge take more that one piece was at the Battle of the Brisket in 2009. That judge was NOT a KCBS CBJ. I was the table captain and after all judging was complete I told the person that they should only take one piece of each type of meat and no more.

Most judges I have sat with and known are conscientious and strive to do the best job that they can. There may be some bad judges out there, but I haven't run into or sat with any of them.
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Unread 12-09-2012, 04:07 AM   #18
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Competition BBQ folks (cooks and judges) are a very, very small niche of society. I don't see how the general public could be offended by these articles at all. Honestly, that's the reality. It's my understanding that the KCBS BullSheet is only for KCBS members, not the general public. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it happens often.


IMO, the offended parties seem to be judges. I'm a judge, but mostly a cook, and I honestly enjoyed reading both of the articles. Sometimes, ya just need to step back, crack a beer, take a breath and not over-analyze things.....enjoy it for what it is. If you don't enjoy it, turn the page.
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Unread 12-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #19
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I have only judged a bit over 30 contests, mostly on the West Coast, but I have never seen the type of behaviors described. If bad behavior did occur I'm certain the TC would discreetly pull the judge aside and provide a little on-the-job training.
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Unread 12-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #20
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My very first comp I judged(Council Bluffs,IA) a few years ago, there was not enough Table Captains but plenty of judges. At our table they asked who had the most experience and they(the rep) made him the table captain and replaced him with another judge. I dont remember anything about the first 3 categories but the brisket stands out to me because this "table captain" on at least 2 of the boxes that were full said "make sure I get to taste some of this". Now he may have only said that because the boxes were full, I am not sure, but to me that comment could be taken different ways and it did happen. I did not say anything to the rep at the time because I didnt know if this was the norm. I learned right away that this should not have happened because I talked to other judges at this contest afterwards.

I just told that story just to say sometimes stuff does happen, whether intended or not, so for KCBS judges to talk and think about it is a good thing in my opinion.
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Unread 12-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgPhan View Post
seriously, who ever is putting together the bullsheet needs to exercise a little editorial control. Last month it a front page article about how the public that comes to bbq contests are mouth breathing idiots who are only there to bother the competition teams. This month it is an article about how the judges screw up your entry.

How about we leave the articles about the "dirty truths" in the circular file and publish articles about the positive things about competition bbq.
I actually laughed when I read this quote, as this was the first take I had from last month's paper. However, upon taking a closer look, I whole heartedly agree with managing expectations of the attending public, and like the letter in the current paper with the proposed disclamer.

As for the judging part, if any judge who is also a competitor saw any of those actions in the judging tent, I'm sure the rep would be called at a minimum, and a swift kick in the ass would insue at the maximum. That turn in costs any team a pretty penny and a whole lot of work, even if it is crap. Respect is the key!
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Unread 12-10-2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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I agree with managing expectations, not sugar coating and all the other points made about the content of the articles, I just disgree that the bullsheet is the best place for them.

While it may only get mailed to members, I have seen stacks of them at contests, I see them laying around at bbq joints, my copy stays where visitors might read it, and lots of other places where someone who isnt in on the joke might read it. Remember that whole promoting competition bbq thing?
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Unread 12-10-2012, 08:05 PM   #23
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Do you agree with the swift kick in the ass though?
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Unread 12-10-2012, 08:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmayeux View Post
Do you agree with the swift kick in the ass though?

you shake my box and a swift kick in the ass is the least of your worries.
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Unread 12-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgPhan View Post
. . . . . I just disgree that the bullsheet is the best place for them.
Okay, so if not in the BullSheet - where?
How else would / could / should this be handled?
The Reps are not going to catch every infraction, there's just too much going on.
The Table Captain may or may not see it and may or may not feel comfortable correcting a judge on something like that. And then again, the TC really has no authority to do anything other than call for a Rep.
My intent here was to get the attention of those very few judges who do these things. Again, they aren't widespread problems but they are problems.
Unless and until KCBS has a practical continuing education program up and running for our CBJs and TCs there are going to be some people who need some "guidance" every once in a while.
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Unread 12-11-2012, 09:15 AM   #26
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Oh wait, I forgot that you are a board member....one of the recently elected 4, right. now everything makes sense.
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Unread 12-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #27
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DawgPhan -

PM sent
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Unread 12-12-2012, 09:16 AM   #28
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After reading everyone's comments I am certainly glad that Dave posted that article. I've been repping since 1987 (no jokes here, please!), and the incidents have happened, but rarely. The best a rep can do is correct it when it's seen or reported. And believe me, reps work hard to keep things in control. MOST judges are courteous and take their judging seriously and table captains try their best. When one comes along that doesn't like playing by the rules they usually are not invited back.

I, for one being a cooker, rep and CBJ Instructor, find relief that this article is reaching many more people than I could alone. So I thank you, Dave, for writing it up and I certainly look forward to more educational articles.
Keep up the good work!

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Unread 12-14-2012, 11:48 PM   #29
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Not sure if I agree with his comments, which I just read (yes, I am late to the game), as my wife and I have never experienced any of the table captains actions mentioned.

Now, I can say, that we have seen what would appear to be judges that just take one small bite, and quickly toss the rest in a zip-loc baggie for snacks later on. We were of course not so sure about their intentions to their being there in the first place.

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Unread 12-15-2012, 06:54 AM   #30
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They should ban coolers! I judged a Comp and a large percentage of the judges were more concerned with filling their cooler. Pissed me off.
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