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Hereford versus Angus etc. for Xmas dinner

WHOW! CAB is not a grade of meat. It is a trademark of The Angus Breeders Association. Nothin more nothin less. Or American Angus Association if you want.
 
captndan said:
WHOW! CAB is not a grade of meat. It is a trademark of The Angus Breeders Association. Nothin more nothin less. Or American Angus Association if you want.
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I might not have been paying attn but I didn't see anyone say CAB was a grade of meat.

You are correct it's a brand. that was the whole purpose of this thread. To say that brands mean nothing as far as the quality of the meat goes. It's just a way for big producers to get more money for certain meats or to segment distribution. We liked having a brand because it allowed us to be able to tell a story that the big supermarkets could not in our area. It's all how you market it. Worked for us.
 
centexsmoker said:
"You cannot raise a mixed Hereford with one of these breeds and call it "Wagyu"here."

I disagree but you live there and should know better than me.

Not looking for a dustup and I'll defer to your local knowledge
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I have no problem with a good robust discussion or disagreeing about an issue, and I love to find out when I am wrong.
My intention here is not to see harm done to the image or reputation of a product and industry falsely, and that is what I perceive to be happening.
The USA does not have legal restrictions and legislation on words like "Kobe beef" or "Wagyu" but we do.
I understand how you would be miffed at feeling hard done by, but it is unfair to paint someone else with the same brush when they are doing the hard yards and making a fine product.
Think about this.
The USA exports ZERO "Wagyu" beef to Japan.
Australia is the largest exporter of "Wagyu" beef to Japan and ships more than Japan produces, and ships to many other countries in Europe, Asia and The America's.

I think that alone would give you pause for consideration of your view, no?
 
Buccs, do you know why Australia was allowed to get full bred cattle from Japan, it was my understanding that Japan did not allow export of live cattle from Japan. Yet, I know that they did allow full bred cattle, of several breeds, to be exported and bred in Australia.
 
I don't Bob, but if I remember correctly it was in the mid 90's so it could have been a very good piece of Japanese business strategy because foot and mouth and Mad Cow disease issues were rife.
Our continent is the last, free of most of these diseases, that is why every flight here has enrages passengers when they learn that they can be arrested for bringing fruit or sausage or a product with an egg in it.
Customs checkpoints are pretty ugly here and in NZ!
 
I was just wondering, I thought maybe it had something to do with Macau, as that is the only place you can get Japanese Kobe other than Japan, and that was all about money. I do know Australia has crazy hard requirements for phytosanitation on plants and seeds coming on to Australia, bummer about the toads and rabbits though.

I knew a lot of gardeners that were always trying to sneak seeds in to gardeners all over OZ
 
landarc said:
I was just wondering, I thought maybe it had something to do with Macau, as that is the only place you can get Japanese Kobe other than Japan, and that was all about money. I do know Australia has crazy hard requirements for phytosanitation on plants and seeds coming on to Australia, bummer about the toads and rabbits though.

I knew a lot of gardeners that were always trying to sneak seeds in to gardeners all over OZ
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Yep, we are scoundrels rebelling at authority!
I'll bet it won't be long before Washington and Colorado are making some AUD, altho I know that is not what you meant...we can't even get chili seeds here in WA...well....we aren't supposed to...! ;) :tape:

If only the rabbits would chimp the toads, or the toads would ...oh...never mind...
 
buccaneer said:
I have no problem with a good robust discussion or disagreeing about an issue, and I love to find out when I am wrong.
My intention here is not to see harm the image or reputation of a product and industry falsely, and that is what I perceive to be happening.
The USA does not have legal restrictions and legislation on words like "Kobe beef" or "Wagyu" but we do.
I understand how you would be miffed at feeling hard done by, but it is unfair to paint someone else with the same brush when they are doing the hard yards and making a fine product.
Think about this.
The USA exports ZERO "Wagyu" beef to Japan.
Australia is the largest exporter of "Wagyu" beef to Japan and ships more than Japan produces, and ships to many other countries in Europe, Asia and The America's.

I think that alone would give you pause for consideration of your view, no?
Click to expand...

I'm cool. I just thought you were getting frustrated by your emoticon so I figured we could just chat about something else. I don't really have a need to be right so I'm cool with whatever comes of this. I have plenty to learn on the subject and am glad to discuss.

As for your concern that some dude on a bbq forum is going to harm the image or reputation of a multi-billion dollar international industry, I think we are safe there. They will be fine and no harm to the industry was intended:mrgreen: (good natured smart-assing)

I don't know anything about the local laws or regs there so I'll certainly defer to your local knowledge.

Here is what I based my info on: According to the landing page of the Australian Wagyu Association webpage, they crossbreed wagyu all the time and are openly marketing cross breeding programs. To me, that says that you can cross breed wagyu and still call it wagyu. It has to meet their standards but they wrote the standards so it can be anything they want. Fortunately, they seem to have very high standards and that is a good thing. But they are not just selling 100% wagyu as wagyu and they don't even clam too

It is probably more strict there but make no mistake who sets the regs and writes the standards. It's the AWA. That's their whole reason to exist.
 
landarc said:
Buccs, do you know why Australia was allowed to get full bred cattle from Japan, it was my understanding that Japan did not allow export of live cattle from Japan. Yet, I know that they did allow full bred cattle, of several breeds, to be exported and bred in Australia.
Click to expand...

all of the original live Japanese Wagyu came via the US. Before anybody gets upset, this is from the Australian Wagyu Association...not me:


Wagyu in Australia
Australia received its first Wagyu genetics, a Wagyu female, in 1990. Frozen semen and embryos have been available since 1991 and there have been further imports of live purebreds.

The introduction of Wagyu cattle to Australia has been a costly, long-term project as there has been no protocol with Japan for direct imports. Initially, the Australian herd was greatly influenced by a shipment of five fullblood animals exported from Japan to the United States in 1993. These included the two bulls; Michifuku and Haruki II, and the three cows; Suzutani, Rikitani and Okutani.
 
centexsmoker said:
all of the original live Japanese Wagyu came via the US. Before anybody gets upset, this is from the Australian Wagyu Association...not me:


Wagyu in Australia
Australia received its first Wagyu genetics, a Wagyu female, in 1990. Frozen semen and embryos have been available since 1991 and there have been further imports of live purebreds.

The introduction of Wagyu cattle to Australia has been a costly, long-term project as there has been no protocol with Japan for direct imports. Initially, the Australian herd was greatly influenced by a shipment of five fullblood animals exported from Japan to the United States in 1993. These included the two bulls; Michifuku and Haruki II, and the three cows; Suzutani, Rikitani and Okutani.
Click to expand...

I might have understood that wrong. I can't tell if they were just getting the genetics from those animals or they got the animals themselves. Could be wrong here
 
centexsmoker said:
I'm cool. I just thought you were getting frustrated by your emoticon so I figured we could just chat about something else. I don't really have a need to be right so I'm cool with whatever comes of this. I have plenty to learn on the subject and am glad to discuss.

As for your concern that some dude on a bbq forum is going to harm the image or reputation of a multi-billion dollar international industry, I think we are safe there. They will be fine and no harm to the industry was intended:mrgreen: (good natured smart-assing)

I don't know anything about the local laws or regs there so I'll certainly defer to your local knowledge.

Here is what I based my info on: According to the landing page of the Australian Wagyu Association webpage, they crossbreed wagyu all the time and are openly marketing cross breeding programs. To me, that says that you can cross breed wagyu and still call it wagyu. It has to meet their standards but they wrote the standards so it can be anything they want. Fortunately, they seem to have very high standards and that is a good thing. But they are not just selling 100% wagyu as wagyu and they don't even clam too

It is probably more strict there but make no mistake who sets the regs and writes the standards. It's the AWA. That's their whole reason to exist.
Click to expand...
You will find that this is contradictory to your earlier claims that "Wagyu" is just the word for cow.
Also I covered the issue of "pure" already, and that the breeding here is enhancing the heretibility and phenotypic identifiers and progressing them.
All breeding does that, how do you think the Japanese used cattle that were oxen type labour animals into the best eating beef in the world over 200 years?
They bred them.
The issue that we are in disagreement over is that "Wagyu" has no meaning other than a way to market any beef, and that is not so here in Australia.
Don't you remember me posting a list of breed that we use from Japan?
The heretibility and phenotype characteristics is what destinguishes "Wagyu" form other beef, and in Australia we produce a fine series of those products.
We now sell those genes to the USA BTW.
 
It is not fair to claim that the point I made about taking any old cow and crossing it with a Wagyu is not allowed to be identified Wagyu here with the massive difference of using a selective breeding program with prime cattle with characteristics that would improve the "wagyu" strain and breeding till the characteristic trait is included in the majority gene pool of Wagyu.
 
buccaneer said:
It is not fair to claim that the point I made about taking any old cow and crossing it with a Wagyu is not allowed to be identified Wagyu here with the massive difference of using a selective breeding program with prime cattle with characteristics that would improve the "wagyu" strain and breeding till the characteristic trait is included in the majority gene pool of Wagyu.
Click to expand...

I guess we are talking about 2 different things. My point all along is that most wagyu beef sold comes from wagyu mixed breeds (no matter how highly engineered) and calling it wagyu is a marketing term. i stand behind that. Wagyu is a brand and it can be lots of different things and that's totally OK.

And i totally get the cross breeding is done to make it "better" and I totally agree with it. It's just not as sexy to call something a wagyu cross breed so they call it wagyu....to market it the way they want to.

I think what you are saying is that the standards for this type of thing are higher there and I believe that's true.....let's all hope so.
 
Actually Jersey (dairy breed) is one of the best beef, it hard to find and it take around 3 years for them to get big enough for slaughter.
 
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