Judging: Among The Brethren.

wsm said:

This thread is making me think that when I get a Brethern hat/shirt, I won't wear it while judging, and while visiting on Friday night, I shall not wear judging gear.

Its all about perceptions and if one is not simultaneously perceived as a judge and as a Brethern, one is not suspected of doing anything wrong.

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That's if you "planned" to judge from the beginning.....sometimes, you're pressed into action, like myself and my wife, when you go to visit a comp. Thus, that's why you saw me in my Brethren hat and Beta Beta Que t shirt at Herman. We were there to support our brothers in smoke.

When an event doesn't have enough judges they pull them from where ever they can get them, whether you are a CBJ or not. I would rather have a guy sitting under the tent with a team hat or shirt on than someone who is sitting there dumbfounded. Chances are that person with a team hat or shirt on either knows how to Que or at least has a good understanding of it.
Who would you want to judge your Que. If I competed I would want the guy who is wearing the hat or shirt. I think he would be fairer than the dumbfounded person who is more than likely giving everybody 9's.

Slat, you are right on, as far as logical, thinking ADULTS go. Obviously, I would prefer some one who was apparently connected to the Q world to be in the judging tent.

A big difference between brother Kick and I are saying is that usually I go to a comp PLANNING on judging - if I can say HI to my friends and give them best wishes, that is a bonus - but Brother Kick went to the comp to see his brothers and perhaps share an adult beverage or two - then he was drafted. When he was with his pals he didn't know that he was going to judge, but I did know and I think the rules covering MY conduct should me more stringent then those on Brer Kick.

i have a couple of points to make but take into consideration that i have never been in a competition so if i go astray of what is right in the competition world please let me know.
as far as i know there are no KCBS rules against Phil's actions. in a gentlemans game all participants agree to the rules before entering and show trust in the integrity of the other participants actions throughout.
people need to know more about the bbq brethren! as far as i can see we are not exclusive. i dont see the reason for people to suspect a non exclusive group of cheating. in fact if a team really wanted to cheat couldn't they just work with a judge behind the scenes, and then just enter a competition simultaniously. also if folks knew that the brethren was a nationwide group whose members somewhat rarely get a chance to get together it might look suspicious if we don't hang out.
now if we did make a standard of conduct above and beyond the rules as a courtesy to other contestants and as not to draw uneeded suspicion to ourselves this would not be such a bad thing as any evolving group sometimes needs to govern itself.
phil

Phil,

I understand what you are saying. To a rookie team like mine, we could care less because the odds of winning an event at this point is slim. To the better teams though, they are competing for some relatively big bucks. Grand Champions can take home anywhere from $3000 to $8000 for a large contest. As soon as money enters the picture, things change.

This is one of the few "resurrections" that we have suffered recently that really warrant it--thanks :lol:

This was a grand and enlightening discussion that holds true today.
Thanks to all that provided input!
Brethren Integrity!

TIM

Moderator's Note--I just made this a Sticky--I think it is that important!

Ron_L said:

It's been a coupl eof years since we beat this one to death :-D, but I'm judging my first competition this coming weekend, aqnd I plan on walking around (incognito, of course :roll on Saturday evening (it is a Saturday-Sunday competition) to visit the Brethren teams and the whole gaggle of local teams that I have gotten to know at other comps. The consensus from the old posts seems to be: Visit, stay out front and out of the cooking area, and don't fly any one's colors. Do you all still agree with this?

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Agreed Ron, I will be doing the same this weekend and I plan on having a good time in a tasteful manner as to not create a problem for any brethren teams.

Thanks to Ron for resurrecting this and to Tim for making it a sticky. I had never ran across this one and it was very relevent to me.

I will be judging my first contest in a couple of weeks. It is close to my hometown and I have been looking forward to seeing some of the Brethren I met at my first comp a month ago and meeting some new Brothers (to me) as well. I will try to say hello to everyone on Friday night... maybe share a beer and a laugh and then move on.

Saturday after judging I will be glad to help anyone with any breakdown or whatever but will not go by anyone's area on Saturday morning.

The 2007 Judges CD they play at the Judges Meeting clearly states that no judge shall fraternize with any team the the day of the contest until the judging has been completed. The old rule was no contact after the judges meeting had been held. In either case the night before is OK, and with all things, everything in moderation.....

It's really too bad that KCBS changed the no frat rule to ANY contact the morning of the contest. There were a couple contests I judged last year that I didn't make Fri. night. I showed up early to walk through and say hi to teams I met before and to meet some new teams ( this is why I judge).
I never stayed long and just made chit-chat and after the judges meeting stayed clear. Apparently a few have ruined it for all.
ModelMaker

The reason the KCBS changed the Saturday rule is that some judges were abusing their status(in their own minds). Some judges felt they could waltz into a camp, poke around, open the smoker, and generally act like the had no boundries.

If you've ever competed, you know that Saturday morning flat out not the time for chit chat...

Jeff - Where did you get that info from ? I don't recall ever hearing that as the reason.. Much different than what was posted in earlier posts..

I learned that from Merl Whitebrook.

I'm sure the conflict of interest issues came into play as well.

I judge a bit, compete a little and am a KCBS rep-in-training. How do I identify fellow Brethren?

J Appledog said:

I judge a bit, compete a little and am a KCBS rep-in-training. How do I identify fellow Brethren?

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Identifying Brethren is really not central to this thread.
I hope it is about the awareness of "perceptions" as we compete and judge.

Beyond that--some teams have bought banners, tee shirts, and "whatever" with our distinctive logo.

Otherwise, look for Margarita machines, boom/karaoke boxes, and other signs of demented cookers among the party crowd. :lol:

And, finally, print a list of the "Brethren Members Teams" and take it with you :lol:

TIM

Where does one buy t-shirts or "whatever" with the logo? I know few cookers who aren't a bit demented, Tim!

The list is a good idea....

This is the first time I have seen this thread and as I have been reading through the posts I think this topic is great. I am not a judge but do compete. I have not had this issue come up so I have never even thought about it but as I was reading I have to agree with Dr BBQ's first post on the second page. Obviously double blind judging is there to eliminate judges from knowing who's entries are who's. This should permanently and forever eliminate anyone's complaining if a judge is hanging out with any one team no matter what the circumstances. I see Ray's point about Poobah cooking prime rib in one of our guys tents and think it was a very classy call to make just getting them to take a look at what was going on. We all know that it's very difficult to realize that you may be doing something stupid when you obviously don't have it in your head that you are. But I will say that although these competitions are expensive and time consuming and a lot of us take this sport very seriously, there is a reason we all do this. I don't even think it's really all about BBQ. It's the comraderie! Where else can you go and drink beer with your best friends, hang out all night without the wives nagging you, compete in something you love with the passion that makes life grand? In my opinion if you take away the hanging out or comraderie the sport dies, period! Again I see the gray area and think this topic is fantastic but bbq cooks are judges and vice versa so the same people who compete with their friends, judge their friends and so on. Forbid that friendship and you will end up with no one wanting to judge, thus no competition. Make judging triple blind and blindfold the damn judges lol cause I'm hanging out with my bbq brothers until the sun comes up Saturday morning. At that time I will clink my coffe cup with my friends and bid them farewell and good luck cause I have a job to do and that job is to find the best bbq cooks in the world, no matter if they are my brothers or not. This is the way it should be. Use your farking head, get out of the tent when Saturday rolls around, don't touch the pit Friday night, go around and wish all the teams good luck cause even though they may not be a member of our site we are all in fact brothers in barbecue. Some of us are just smarter than others and know to hang with the cool crowd. :biggrin:

I'm just disappointed I didn't get any of the prime rib in Key Largo back in 2005...

...of course I probably didn't know any of you back then...