Questioning Results

[nmayeux]

A little back ground:

Dave (Uncle Bud's BBQ) and I cooked a contest this weekend with 89 pro teams, so we weren't looking for GC. However, we have each cooked 4 times this year, and two contests as a team as well as both of us are CBJs with Dave having judge 21 contests this year...

With that being said, we think we have a pretty good idea of what a good brisket should be. To address our previous scores, we cooked with our first Creekstone Brisket, and to be honest it was the best brisket either of us had ever cooked.

The issue:

We know we cooked a good brisked, and while not expecting 1st place, we were stunned to be scored just above DAL... (pretty much straight 7s in taste and texture). This is on top up having several judges stop by and taste our turn in brisked and give us their thoughts (at least 8s in T&T). Even today (two days later), my wife and I are just amazed at this brisket.

Our Dilemma:

We know that there was stiff competition, so we can reason that 89 teams, a bad table, 5 truly fantastic entries judged at the same table, etc...

But we can't help wondering if due to the size of the event that the numbering could have been messed up, or if the scores were keyed incorrectly. Or could it be something that we just didn't anticipate...

I know I am whining, but the bottom line is instead of getting drunk and trying to explain the scores, what do you do when you truly question your results?

 

[Podge]

I've oftened wondered if the Alternate #'s get mixed up. I could only speculate this happened to you. The reps keep the boxes after the contest (I don't know when they get thrown away).. so you could ask to see the boxes and check the #'s yourself I would think. If that happened to me, I would not think twice about asking to see the boxes. I think I'm a good brisket cook, and if I turn in something I think that should be in the 170's and it turns out to be in the 150's, I'm questioning it.

 

[DawgPhan]

suck it up and move on. I really dont know of anything you can do. I am sure there is some procedure for appealing a score, but that might have to happen at the contests or before the scores are certified.

That happens to the best of them. keep cooking good food and it will average out.

 

[DawgPhan]

I've oftened wondered if the Alternate #'s get mixed up. I could only speculate this happened to you. The reps keep the boxes after the contest (I don't know when they get thrown away).. so you could ask to see the boxes and check the #'s yourself I would think. If that happened to me, I would not think twice about asking to see the boxes. I think I'm a good brisket cook, and if I turn in something I think that should be in the 170's and it turns out to be in the 150's, I'm questioning it.

have you ever actually gotten your boxes back after awards?

just asking because I would have never even thought about that.

 

[Cast Iron Chef]

We held a contest this weekend in Vegas. I judged as well as help host. The KCBS rep kept all the boxes until after awards so if anyone had a question about the box numbers being mislabeled or duplicated they were still available.

 

[hogzgonewild]

I was there judging for the first time, so I'll give you what I know, and what I saw behind the scenes....

As for a numbering mess up, I highly doubt it. You had 6 KCBS reps, not to mention 4 of the BEST KCBS reps working the competition. Because of the way the boxes are re-numbered with stickers, the Reps would have had to mess up 2 boxes (by the way that if you give one team the wrong sticker, you would have to give another team the wrong sticker) and the same time. And this is double checked and then "cleared" to the table captains after each turn in before the boxes are discarded.

Being a competition cook, and having the opportunity to judge this weekend taught me this....It really is the luck of the draw on what judges you get, and what table you are put on.

I personally gave a lot of 8&9's, with only a few 7's for deliberate mistakes or problems, but there were a few judges at the tables I sat at, who gave 6's and 7's without batting an eye.

Couple this with the fact that you could have been #6 on the table, and #1-5 were just that much better than yours, you could have gotten the judged comparatively to theirs. Not saying it is suppose to happen, but it does.

I hate it for you, as we felt the same way after leaving Cleveland, GA a few weeks ago. (We cooked the best food ever, and had one of the worst finishes to date.) But do this, instead of dwelling on it, kicking yourself, and/or blaming the judges....let it encourage you to practice more and try harder, so you can come back at the next competition and kick butt.

I'm cooking 4 Briskets this weekend for the same reason. We love our brisket, judges disagree, so after tasting 6 boxes this weekend, I'm determined to find a recipe I think they will like!

 

[HarleyEarl]

I had a similar issue with pork at one contest this year. I use the same presentation for each contest and all but one I scored 8s & 9s (9s far out weighing the 8s) for presentation. But the one in question, I got 5,5,6,7,7,7 - all I could attribute it to was that my box got mixed up with someone else's. Not much I could do since by the time I received the score sheet, the judges were long since gone and knew the KCBS Reps couldn't have done much. So I just sucked it up and moved on to the next contest where BTW, I got all 9s in presentation.

 

[Jason TQ]

That blows. The pork I turned in there I thought was one of the best I've ever cooked and pork has been our best category this year. It completely bombed and I was pretty shocked. So wasn't sure what the heck to figure other than hit the wrong table.......or in fact it sucked a very very large amount :doh:.

 

[Gowan]

There were no box numbering errors at Cumming; I'll put a $100 bill on that. The Braziers and the Polands ran the Pro contest, and they don't allow such mistakes.

Big contests are just bloody difficult to win. With 14 tables, some teams are going to be fortunate enough to land on 4 higher scoring tables and some will be cursed with one or more lower scoring tables - there's an inevitable luck factor with big contests. It sucks, but it does effect all teams randomly. Just look at QSB: Grand Champs in Cleveland, hammered in Cumming a couple weeks later.

My team was crushed at the Cup too. And yes, we thought we had a pretty good cook. But I'm sure there were at least 70 other teams in Cumming who felt the same way. Not everybody can fit at the top of the scoresheet when there are nearly a hundred good teams in play.

 

[Uncle Buds BBQ]

A little back ground:

Dave (Uncle Bud's BBQ) and I cooked a contest this weekend with 89 pro teams, so we weren't looking for GC. However, we have each cooked 4 times this year, and two contests as a team as well as both of us are CBJs with Dave having judge 21 contests this year...

With that being said, we think we have a pretty good idea of what a good brisket should be. To address our previous scores, we cooked with our first Creekstone Brisket, and to be honest it was the best brisket either of us had ever cooked.

The issue:

We know we cooked a good brisked, and while not expecting 1st place, we were stunned to be scored just above DAL... (pretty much straight 7s in taste and texture). This is on top up having several judges stop by and taste our turn in brisked and give us their thoughts (at least 8s in T&T). Even today (two days later), my wife and I are just amazed at this brisket.

Our Dilemma:

We know that there was stiff competition, so we can reason that 89 teams, a bad table, 5 truly fantastic entries judged at the same table, etc...

But we can't help wondering if due to the size of the event that the numbering could have been messed up, or if the scores were keyed incorrectly. Or could it be something that we just didn't anticipate...

I know I am whining, but the bottom line is instead of getting drunk and trying to explain the scores, what do you do when you truly question your results?

As DawgPhan says "Let it go...." Stuff happens.

We'll try again and it will be a different result. Although that is the definition of "Insanity"! :shock:

 

[Kit R]

A hypothetical question, not directed to the OP but to the general concept of questioning results. Does anyone here ever question GOOD results? I will admit I have a time or two. And if so what did you do about it? I took the check and resolved to cook better next time.

 

[nmayeux]

As for sucking it up, moving on, etc., that really isn't the reason for this post. I am way to deep into this mess to quit now. Also, nobody is looking to place blame, as we know the organizer and reps, who we like and respect.

But with roughly a $1000 spent to compete, at what point do you honestly question results, and what do you do? This is the real question. This is just the first time where I have reached this point.

 

[drbbq]

Am I the only guy that thinks 7's making you almost DAL is a problem? With a three points system it's anybody's guess who will win.

 

[indianagriller]

Dont get too bent out of shape, there have been a few times where we have won a catagory with a recipe and then the next week that same recipe has came in almost DAL... its the luck of BBQ

 

[mjl]

As for sucking it up, moving on, etc., that really isn't the reason for this post. I am way to deep into this mess to quit now. Also, nobody is looking to place blame, as we know the organizer and reps, who we like and respect.

But with roughly a $1000 spent to compete, at what point do you honestly question results, and what do you do? This is the real question. This is just the first time where I have reached this point.

When do you honestly question results? Usually it only happens when the scores are lower than expected. No one questions when they get 8's and 9's. Sounds like you enjoyed your food, seems the judges didn't, it happens. I would be more concerned with 3 9's and 3 6's from the judges, that is more likely to have me questioning the judges. Straight 7's seems pretty straight forward and consistent to me. Every competitor I know has a "good turn in/bad score and bad turn in/good score story", it is part of the territory when you have subjective judging. If you believe in your product and flavor profile, stick with it, one contest is a small sample pool.

 

[markG]

Am I the only guy that thinks 7's making you almost DAL is a problem? With a three points system it's anybody's guess who will win.

And there is the winning answer. I am a newbie this year and there were some things that I turned in that should have been a solid 3 and got 7's. The scoring scale is wide for a reason, I thought. I would rather get an honest 3 than a (lowball in the mind of a nice judge) 7, so I can know that it was REALLY bad and give me something to work on.

 

[sitnfat]

This is nature of the beast for a big contest. A lot of new judges from whatever area it's in a lot of really good teams. They are crap shoots.

 

[drbbq]

And there is the winning answer. I am a newbie this year and there were some things that I turned in that should have been a solid 3 and got 7's. The scoring scale is wide for a reason, I thought. I would rather get an honest 3 than a (lowball in the mind of a nice judge) 7, so I can know that it was REALLY bad and give me something to work on.

The problem is the cooks all want high scores so they're ok with the three point system. It's ridiculous IMO.

 

[Smokin' Hicks]

not to say this happened to you, but....was our 4th year in the 2012 St. Louis BBQ Bash, it is a 95 or so team comp., a lot of fun....it is 8 catagories and the first catagory we turned in was chef's choice...smoked beef tenderloin and grilled lobster medallions with a lemon grass and butter sauce...anyway, they started the calls for all catagories and we got 5th in brisket 2nd in chili 2nd in pork and was thinking we prob. were in the top 10 or so....well they begin to call the overall places starting with 10 and we dont get called and started to wonder that was weird....well you dont get your scores till two days later in this comp. ..so my team mate goes to get our scores and sees we are 67th overall and got top 14 at least in all the other catagories.....he starts to look at each catagory to find out which one we bombed and sees chef's choice and sees 000 000 000 000 000 000 for our scores in chefs choice....to make a longer story short he gets incontact winth the organizer finally gets the score found the organizrer finally gets back to us appologizing and said we were actually 4th place overall and not 67th.....so lost scores or switched scores which ever you wanna say it deffinitly does happen

 

[Meat & Heat]

And there is the winning answer. I am a newbie this year and there were some things that I turned in that should have been a solid 3 and got 7's. The scoring scale is wide for a reason, I thought. I would rather get an honest 3 than a (lowball in the mind of a nice judge) 7, so I can know that it was REALLY bad and give me something to work on.

+1 on that.
The last two comps we did this year we put out in my opinion some of the best food to date and finished in the bottom third. The best results we had was the worst cook of the year, almost could't even put the ribs in the box without them falling apart. The brisket was wayyyyyyyyyyyyy overdone, the chicken was a disaster and the pork butt was dry ( I fell asleep and the cooker got way outa control) but we finished in the top third. I know it's a crap shoot sometimes but it does make you wonder how could that be. I also would like to get a true honest score, if it sucked I really want to know and why. I would like to see a few more coment cards so that way you can have a good idea what was wrong, getting just one really leaves you hanging.